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7/13 Update

13 Jul

Updates

  1. New sorting types for story listings. Now available are sorting based on the number of reviews, number of favorites (favs), and number of follows (subscriptions).
  2. Community pages received a minor face-lift to be more consistent with rest of the site.
  3. More available display width for screens with 1280 pixel width or wider resolution.

UPDATED: Crossover in-page sorting has been fixed.

 
230 Comments

Posted by on 07/13/2012 in community, stories

 

Tags: , ,

230 responses to “7/13 Update

  1. Jackie

    07/13/2012 at 10:25 pm

    I don’t know if anyone else feels this way, but I feel like the whole display of “favs” and “follows” is kind of an invasion of my stats page. I get to look at the “favs” and “follows” of my stories when I log in. I am the one who gets to know the numbers. I am the writer of these stories and you’re basically giving everyone full access to my stat page. What’s next? Number of hits? Whatever happened to having some privacy?

    The review box at the bottom of the page was a good idea, but I agree with all the people that say to uncheck the “follow” boxes. If readers want to keep reading a story, they are FULLY CAPABLE of doing it themselves.

    Sort by reviews, favs, and follows is ridiculous. It really is, and this is from a person who has stories with what are certainly a healthy amount of all of those. Why keep promoting Twilight when there are BILLIONS of better stories with better writing out there? This is unfair to new authors on the sites and new stories.

    A good “sort-by” idea? How about “sort-by one-shots”?

     
    • Lisa

      07/13/2012 at 11:58 pm

      Agree whole-heartedly.

       
      • Madison

        07/14/2012 at 12:53 am

        I argree, but, I think they wa.nt people to have full acsess to you, so you cant fully block them out

         
      • Digitalis

        07/14/2012 at 1:13 am

        I don’t want my stats out there for everyone to see – that’s my business as a writer, not everyone else’s.That’s not sour grapes. For my fandom, my figures – review, favorite and followers – are relatively high. I just don’t like the competitive nature of this new function, I don’t want my stories involved, and I don’t like that I have no choice in the matter.

        Can you give writers an “opt-out” function for this? I understand this might reduce the number of hits, but as my feeling is that any reader who bases their reading choices on what’s basically an arbitrary set of figures can’t be that discriminating, I don’t mind if they pass me by. I’m pretty sure if anyone wants to read my stories, they’ll find them without having to follow the herd. And if they don’t want to, that’s fine, too.

         
    • konarciq

      07/14/2012 at 4:26 am

      I hadn’t thought of the privacy angle, but thinking it over, I can only agree. So to modify my earlier post:

      Perhaps it could be *optional* for people to have their favs and follows for each story shown on their profile.
      But I still stand by my opinion that this info does not belong on the story page.

       
      • m

        07/14/2012 at 7:56 am

        I think that this really might be discouraging for some people. Please, fanfiction.net and FictionPress…create an opt-out feature. Lower-profile writers certainly won’t like it, some higher-profile writers won’t like it…and newcomers will most likely hate it.

         
  2. Amy

    07/13/2012 at 11:18 pm

    I think readers should have to leave a review every couple of chapters in order to advance in a story. As in, leave one 50-character review every 5 chapters to advance to the next chapter. It is the least they can do, especially considering how hard writers work on the longer multi-chapter fics.
    Another idea I have is turning the review page into more of a comments page, where writers or other readers can reply either on the spot (making the replies public), or through private message – similar to deviantArt.com’s comment format.
    Other ideas I have are contest features, where certain users can establish a writing contest (like the c2 communities, but as contests), and maybe making the forums more neutral, organized, and accessible. It’s not fair that the most popular forums stay at the top indefinitely, as no one really sees the new forums, which stay at the bottom of the list.
    I also like the idea of rankings based on number of words published, or number of stories, favorites, etc – but not in a way that would list people based on their rank in one area, thus making it impossible for other writers to be noticed. Maybe rankings are as simple as a little icon on someone’s profile, and can determine which authors have access to certain features, like contests, etc.
    And I guess that’s it. Thanks for your time. :)

     
    • Kaza

      07/14/2012 at 3:41 pm

      that is a terrible idea omg

       
      • favonilla

        07/14/2012 at 4:32 pm

        I think it’s a bad idea too. We don’t write just to get reviews, but to be read and enjoyed. Some readers feel uncomfortable leaving feedback because they don’t just want to say “omg this is good” (which, as a writer seeking feedback, I find completely useless) but don’t have the knowledge or confidence to leave more constructive feedback. Why should they be locked out?

        Any reviews garnered under this kind of rule would, in my opinion, have no helpful content.

        I guess it comes down to what you think reviews are for. If you just want your ego stroked, fine. If you want more detailed criticism – and most serious writers do – then the number of reviews is far less important than the content.

        As for “access to contests etc” – for heaven’s sake! This isn’t Facebook, you know!

         
    • DC111

      07/14/2012 at 8:54 pm

      Even as someone who looooves reviews, I think this is not a great idea. After all, you don’t have to ‘review’ when you read a regular book, do you? There shouldn’t be any sense of obligation about reviewing. Some people just want to read without the intrusion of having to write feedback, because it’d break the flow of their experience. And that’s just fine. Readers do not owe writers anything. (Though it is nice if they are considerate enough to leave a comment anyway.)

       
    • SanguineTaurean

      07/15/2012 at 2:20 pm

      As a reader of ffn for many years I have read a lot of stories. There are times I leave a review for almost every chapter and there are times I may leave just several reviews for the whole story. Sometimes I just don’t have anything to add so I don’t. FORCING readers to leave a reply is a terrible idea in which many will probably stop reading and leave the site which is not the point. If an author is only after the reviews then, in my opinion, they are not writing for the right reasons to begin with and that is just sad.

      I don’t understand the new “following” option listed and the reason it is on the header. What is the purpose? I think the review stat/counter is plenty. Sometimes simplicity is best and as much as I like progress I’m afraid all the changes will be confusing to newbies and just glob up the works.

       
    • ShikiKira

      07/20/2012 at 9:26 pm

      Are you a review whore or something? That’s a terrible and horrible idea. What reader would actually do that to be able to read further into the story. You seem to just want to be able to inflate your own story probably because of your own lack of them. Don’t punish the readers if your own writing doesn’t affect them enough to make them want to send in a review.

      As for contests, are you an idiot? This isn’t Dokuga or DeviantArt. The sites are for free writing expression. They are not here for awards. If you want the sites to give awards, then go find one that already does. There are many forums on the sites that already hold contests and many of the stories archived are nominated for awards on other places on the internet. We don’t need FFN or FP to have their own. They are already swamped with other things as it is.

       
  3. Meh

    07/13/2012 at 11:46 pm

    You know those authors that constantly demand a certain number of reviews before they upload a new chapter? I wonder if they are now going to start demanding a certain number of “favs” and “follows” as well.

     
  4. HasiVA

    07/14/2012 at 12:32 am

    Wow! Glad to see these updates! :)

     
  5. Pata-Pata-Pata-Pon~Pon-Pon-Pata-Pon~Chaka-Chaka-Pata-Pon~Pon-Pata-Pon-Pata~!

    07/14/2012 at 1:55 am

    For members who have been here for years, likes me – chances are you have read quite a numbers of stories. I’ve tried the new sorting option. In a matter of seconds I get a list of the most read stories up front. After glancing at every titles from a few pages of search results I can honestly says I have read most of it. Downsize of being a long time members. The old completed stories, the abandoned stories, the slow updating stories and the new refreshing stories are all sorted together by number of reviews. I tried the other 2 sort-by options. The first few pages results changed only so slightly. I lost interest in 10 minutes flat.

    New users will enjoy being able to find ‘famous’ stories quickly (Honest to god truth, very good stories does have many followers, favorites and reviews. There’s no denying it.). What better way to start their first journey to fanfiction? By reading popular stories of course. In short time all those stories will be read and new user will be sorting by update date just to find new story.

    Don’t be despair oh authors and authoress. Us old members need new stories and the new members will eventually find themselves wanting fresh and constantly updating stories.

     
    • KageNoNeko

      07/14/2012 at 5:54 pm

      Yeah, I would agree with you. We long time members probably have seen all the good fanfiction. I’m only hoping that new members read good fanfiction that is quality that can teach them the stuff that they need to write a awesome story.

       
  6. Princess of Troy (@Andromakhe)

    07/14/2012 at 2:49 am

    I don’t see information on number of subscribers/favorites on my fics. Looks like the same info as usual – number of chapters, number of reviews, dates, etc. So I’m not sure where this complaint about privacy is coming from. In fact, even if I look at my statistics page, I don’t get to see number of subscriptions/favorites. Unless the pages have changed since I last saw them.

    I like the fact we can now type comments straight on the chapter pages. But I dislike the automatic ticking of the follow boxes. I don’t want people to follow me by accident or to put one of my fics on alert and then have to remove it. Also, why are there multiple boxes that do the same thing? Why not have just four, or if someone doesn’t want to review, they can use the dropdown as before? The tick boxes can be there for people who leave reviews to do everything in one go, but if not leaving a review, people likely just want to subscribe or favorite the fic. The way it is now, we have to untick several boxes and it seem superfluous.

     
    • alixe75

      07/15/2012 at 3:32 am

      you can see it on stories list, when Favorite or follows sort is selected

       
  7. animegleek

    07/14/2012 at 2:55 am

    This is so BIAS on my part as n author in Fanfiction. Why do you have to sort our stories out by followers and faves? this isnt twitter….this is completely RACISM in my opinion….I mean the reviews are fine to be displayed but WHY DO YOU HAVE TO INVADE OUR PRIVACY?! Do the readers have to know how many have liked our story? I believe not! What’s important here is THAT THEY READ OUR STORIES BECAUSE THEY LIKED IT NOT BECAUSE OF HOW WANTED IT IS…..if you look at books some are not really well known but people chose to read because they liked it – it doesnt have to be a best selling book so people will buy it will be COMPLETELY BIAS on those authors who are trying attract attention because of passion and SAME GOES FOR US AUTHORS OF FANFICTION AND FICTIONPRESS! I am so not updating unless the site takes out all those extra miscellaneous….please bring back the old settings where the readers can only see no. of reviews/ratedk,k+.t. or m/ genre/ name of characters the name of the author and the summary and title of the story………….BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE ANY PRIVACY AT ALL! This is seriously infuriating me and completely BIAS AND RACISM I repeat!

     
    • Lorraine

      07/14/2012 at 11:25 am

      Oh, please, please don’t taint our arguments by bringing up racism. This has nothing to do with race.

       
    • Raf

      07/14/2012 at 1:44 pm

      “You keep using that word… I do not think it means what you think it means.”

       
    • Phantom Ou

      07/15/2012 at 12:14 am

      Arguing while ignorant will not bring the consideration of your points that you wish for. This has absolutely no relation with racism. At all.

       
    • m

      07/15/2012 at 2:34 pm

      animegleek–if your complaint is that this new update makes things harder on authors whose first language is not English, I don’t think that it’s really an issue because a lot of those authors are in fact trying to improve their English (and they know they need to work on it). However, I agree with the middle part of your comment: People should read stories because they liked it, not because it’s “popular”.

       
    • RWFF

      07/26/2012 at 11:40 am

      OH SPARE ME!, this is NOT about racism or biases. I hate how that term gets bantied about. I don’t like the displaying of favs or follow stats, because it makes things more about being a POPULARITY CONTEST that about recognizing a good well-written story. I agree with those that say displaying those stats invades the privacy of the writer. I’ve seen authors brag about their number of hits and alerts, so I guess I view these stats as ‘bragging rights.’

      Every writer builds a fanbase over time, some have bigger bases than others. Many of these fanbases are cliques. I think displaying these stats feeds into the high school popularity mentality. Do we want stories that driven (in any given realm) by on popularity or driven by a writer’s desire to improve.

      The number of reviews, favs, or follows does not inform or suggest the story is good. I’ve seen good stories get ignored and horrible stories get tons of reviews. Its all about being the ‘prom queen’ (or king) in some of the realms.

       
  8. viola

    07/14/2012 at 3:35 am

    Jackie, I agree.
    And besides, favs and followers are very inaccurate – especially now with the pre-checked boxes. A lot of people also uses favs instead of bookmarks for stories they might read, in future,not for stories they really like. But newcommers don’t know this.

    Ok, I can accept that there are people who want to sort stories by popularity (which is not always the sign of quality, as we all know). But even for them, this sorting is useless. For example a story with 85 chapters and 600 reviews, a story with 10 chapters and 200 reviews, and a oneshot with 25 reviews – the long story will get to the top, tough both the others are more popular.

    I agree that sorting by oneshots and number of chapters would be more useful for me.

    And one more thing – what was the point of messing up the alerts? It worked fine as it was! It is now impossible to filter in my mail story alerts from the message I get when I post my story, or from the forum alerts. After three hours of trying, I decided to cancel all my alerts and unsubscribe from forums.

    If you want to improve the site, why don’t you make a survey among your users first? Most of these changes you made now are annoying. Not everyone on FFN is a 16-year old facebook addict!

     
  9. Lissie Lupin

    07/14/2012 at 4:45 am

    The only reason people have so many problems with sorting by faves, follows, and reviews is because they don’t want their stories to be left behind. What people need to realize is that high popularity does not equal high quality. If everyone realized this, there would be no problem.

     
    • konarciq

      07/16/2012 at 4:06 am

      FYI, Lissie, I have three stories on the first two pages when sorting by popularity features like this. And I’m still dead-set against it…

       
      • Lissie Lupin

        07/16/2012 at 6:53 am

        Well, for your information, I have stories that aren’t ranked so bad either. On the hand, I have stories that are near the middle. I’m neither for or against it. I should have been more exact in saying the majority are against it because they don’t want stories to be left behind.

        You never actually said why you’re dead set against it, so there’s no way I can respond to that…

         
  10. Kierany9

    07/14/2012 at 6:21 am

    No. Just no. It is very discouraging for most people. Most stories in my fandom(Fanfiction.net) have 1-5 favourites and/or alerts, including mine. And then there is the monopoly of stories with way over 20. Some are good, most have *insert popular pairing here*. This just makes it impossible to get from bottom to top. Reviews are enough. I’m glad I have a decent number of them…
    For FictionPress, maybe, as stories are categorized by genre. But I want this feature on FanFiction.net REMOVED.

     
    • m

      07/14/2012 at 8:56 am

      Definitely agree with you, Kierany9. This new feature just completes the monopoly that those “popular” authors have by making it even easier for them to gather more favs/follows/reviews. The people who blindly follow these authors will be glad to see this feature, but the smaller-scale authors and the newcomers will be oppressed in a way.

       
    • Princess of Troy (@Andromakhe)

      07/14/2012 at 9:15 pm

      I agree that comparison of number of favorites/subscriptions is discouraging. It’s my belief that stories turn out the best if an author tells the story he/she wants to and forget about what the readership wants. Yes, no one will read my fics now. :P However, to be confronted with actual stats kind of makes me feel like, “Why bother writing?” Certainly, number of favorites is no indication of quality, but that’s cold comfort when faced with rankings.

      I will say that I did try out the sorting by favorites, just to see what it was like. I don’t like it. Granted, some of the fics that came up I have read before already and found to be well-written, while others just would never catch my interest based on summary regardless. So it is still a matter of personal filtering. Still, the thing that annoys me is that the fics with lots of favorites are old and have been on the site a while. This is unfair to new stories in the sense that the old ones, even though completed, have an advantage merely by virtue of when they were posted. Kind of silly, in my opinion. I don’t mind that the options are there for sorting. I don’t even mind whether or not follows/favorites are visible. But I am sticking with the reliable Update Date and don’t think I will ever use the follows/favorites criteria again. It is imbalanced and I think unfair.

       
  11. Jan

    07/14/2012 at 6:32 am

    After reading all the comments so far, the vast majority of them are against the listing of fav/follows for the below reasons:

    1. Promotes popularity.
    2. Doesn’t reflect story value.
    3. Stories should be read for summary/plot and not for its numbers.
    4. One shots and shorter stories are disadvantaged due to shorter chapters.
    5. Affects new writers / new stories as they don’t have the numbers.
    6. Doesn’t allow an even playing field for all stories.
    7. Privacy issues – Fav/follows are part of writers stats and should remain private.

    If I have left any out, feel free to add to the list.

    Solutions
    1. Remove the function altogether.
    2. Have the ability to opt out – but this would mean that the writers that opt out, may miss out on potential readers (it’s a catch-22 situation)
    3. Move the function to profile page instead.

    There have been other suggestions for different kind of ratings but in the end it is still ratings and ratings mean popularity, both good and bad.

    I hope that FanFic takes all this into consideration.

     
    • DC111

      07/14/2012 at 8:58 pm

      I honestly think the best solution would be the third one; displaying stats ONLY on the profile page. It’s somewhat more fair, and in that context is more of a curiosity thing rather than a popularity thing.

       
    • RWFF

      07/26/2012 at 11:53 am

      The fourth point in this list is the MAIN factor that affects the tally of those stats. One shots and shorter stories are disadvantaged due to shorter chapters

      The number of chapters affects the number of reviews, favs, and follows any story gets. For example, let’s say a chapter on average gets about 5 to 10 reviews in any given realm. Compare a 30 chapter story that has gotten 250 reviews to a 15 chapter story that has gotten 155 reviews. The 15 chapter story is getting more reviews per chapter than the 30 chapter one and guess which one will appear in a sort by review first.

      I agree totally with Jan’s list 100%

       
  12. konarciq

    07/14/2012 at 6:55 am

    Jan: Thanks for putting everything together in one message!

    One solution was left out however: since there are obviously people around who *do* like to search stories by popularity, why not keep the *search by number of reviews*, but alter it so stories get listed by their *average number of reviews per chapter* instead of the total number.

    Regarding reason 4: I suppose you mean *fewer* chapters?

    Regarding solution 2: at least it’d be the author’s own choice then.

    I’ll second the wish that FFnet takes this into consideration!

     
  13. m

    07/14/2012 at 8:41 am

    A short parable: Once there was an amateur writer who wanted to explore fanfiction. After seeing the discouraging numbers on his/her first story compared to other “popular” writers, he/she gave up on writing. THE. END. Oh, wait. Epilogue: If he/she hadn’t been able to compare themselves to other writers, he/she would have gone on to have a successful career in writing.
    Honestly, this is probably going to come true several times over.

     
    • Lorraine

      07/14/2012 at 11:33 am

      1) If someone loves writing enough to be able to have a successful career in it, then a few numbers on a fanfiction site are not going to make the difference.
      2) There are already plenty of ways that amateur authors can find popular stories and feel discouraged. Google searches for “[X pairing] fanfiction” will bring up the most popular stories. They will hear about the most famous stories.

      Bottom line, I think people are blowing the bad parts of this feature out of proportion. It’s not even the default search function; I don’t think this is going to make any huge difference to what stories are getting read.

       
      • DC111

        07/14/2012 at 9:01 pm

        Re 1)
        Yes it will make a difference. Most people don’t know they love writing before they actually start writing. Makes sense. But if you’re discouraged from the get-go, you probably won’t get far enough into it to realize you really like it. In an ideal world, you’d be right, numbers and stats should make no difference. But they do. :/

         
      • m

        07/14/2012 at 9:39 pm

        DC111 does have a point. My own experience with writing certainly wasn’t love at first sight…I don’t know about you.

         
      • m

        07/14/2012 at 11:23 pm

        Re 2) Yes, I realize that there are easy ways of searching, such as Google, that will pull up the “popular/famous” stories. However it is a different matter entirely for FFNet to be encouraging this. And I’m very glad that this isn’t the default, don’t get me wrong.

         
  14. sexydrama

    07/14/2012 at 10:17 am

    When are links on the profiles going to be allowed again?

     
  15. Izraill

    07/14/2012 at 11:45 am

    WTF? This is causing a revolution, FFN was losing members before this update, this only makes it worse, I don’t know what will happen to the site if things don’t get better.

     
    • prestoncook

      07/14/2012 at 12:09 pm

      Nothing will happen to the site, Izraill. I know it looks like there’s all sorts of complaints and riots going on here, but I really doubt anything will come of it. The FFN heads tend to ignore people and do what they want to do and eventually people get over it. People on this site always seem to overreact to small changes like this (Note the crazy comments above talking about racism and parables). The “revolution” will die down after it peaks all will be back to normal.

       
      • m

        07/14/2012 at 11:14 pm

        FYI, “parable” doesn’t always have religious connotations. :) Thanks for your feedback, though.

         
  16. Rachel

    07/14/2012 at 12:53 pm

    I have to agree with the majority of the people here. It does seem like an invasion of privacy to have stats such as number of favs and number of followers posted for everyone to see. I can see young authors getting discouraged when their story doesn’t have the stats that others do. And how does this help improve the site? If given the option, I would most certainly opt out. It’s fine with me if I lose readers because of it.

    Many of the new changes implimented just seem to clutter things up. The information we see in the story listing area does not need to be repeated again when we click on the story. The site was better when it focused more on what is being posted, not a bunch of superfluous information and images. I appreciate that you are trying to attract more users and I appreciate the service your site provides, but I hope you reconcider some of the changes you have made or at least allow us more control on our profile pages. Thanks.

     
    • m

      07/14/2012 at 9:44 pm

      I really agree with Rachel….as much “fun” as it is to put up book covers and all that, it really should all be about the text. Plain, simple, black-and-white text. But thank you to the web designers who put time and effort into this. That can’t go unacknowledged.

       
  17. chromjate

    07/14/2012 at 1:18 pm

    I think it’s absurd. The number of reviews and the content of reviews are already clear indication of how the fic looks like. We don’t need display of who ‘fav-ed’ our stories or who ‘follow’ us. Seriously, this is fanfiction.net, not twitter or facebook.

     
  18. johnnyzwei

    07/14/2012 at 4:09 pm

    I think sorting by oneshots would be pretty cool

     
    • SwtBlisss

      07/14/2012 at 8:00 pm

      Ditto on this.

       
  19. Sarah Johns

    07/14/2012 at 5:19 pm

    Are abuse reports down or something?
    My fandom has been plagued with interactive chat/script/chatspeak fanfictions enmass latley and I do report the fics I see but several of them never get removed no matter how many reports I send. I always assumed fics were pulled after a number of reports (since someone managed to have two of mine yanked by falsley reporting them as “wrong category”) but latley nothing hardly get removed.

     
  20. Ana

    07/14/2012 at 5:36 pm

    Frankly, the fav/follows features is redundant. Writing is not supposed to be a popularity contest, it’s a way for people to release their imaginative minds to world. By putting the favs/follows feature you’re putting down many new potential writers and potentially harming those with sensitive self-esteems from ever writing again. And I know looking far too into it but there are really sensitive people out there. It’s redundant and stupid, this isn’t facebook or twitter!

     
    • m

      07/14/2012 at 9:58 pm

      Well put, Ana!

       
  21. reynard

    07/14/2012 at 5:50 pm

    Thanks for your hard work. Although I must admit, I am embarassed if the fix number 1 really takes effect now. My story didn’t get much favs/reviews…:(

    By the way, in the review count, my review was counted as 1. But after I see the review, I see nothing. It’s just a “No Review Found”. And I checked my Moderate Reviews, but I’ve got nothing to moderate. Last, I checked the traffic stats of my story. There are two reviews. I clicked to read it, but again, in the place when we can read review, it is written ‘No Review Found’.

     
  22. tiquatue

    07/14/2012 at 7:59 pm

    I’ll echo reynard’s comments. Thank you for your updates on the site and the hard work that has gone into them. The site hasn’t had this much of a face-lift in quite some time and it’s a welcome sight!

    For those of you who are so against the faves/follows being public, you seem to have the idea that ff.net is only for writers. It isn’t. It’s for readers, too. These new options are for the readers, without whom you have really no reason to post at all. Posting at ff.net means you *want* to be read, and read by a wide audience; otherwise you’d leave your story on your hard drive or just pass it around among your friends.

    I’m going to sound like one of those stereotypical, cane-waving oldsters who yell, “You kids get offa my lawn!” but I remember a day when you had to pay — yes, pay real money — to get those statistics you’re complaining about and take for granted. (In fact, I was very put out when ff.net started doling the perks I’d paid for to all and sundry.) No one could see those faves and follows and hits unless they ponied up some dough. Now everyone can, and you know what? That’s okay with me. I have stories and poems with hardly any hits and no faves/follows/reviews at all. I have stories with loads of all of them. (Well, as large a number as you can get in my tiny fandom.) I’m proud of what I write and if this new feature brings more people in to read my work (much of which is buried in the back pages) then I’m all for it.

     
    • m

      07/14/2012 at 9:47 pm

      Tiquatue–yes, you’re certainly right about the free stats. That is one of the many wonderful things about these websites. However, your argument about “writers need readers” can go the other way, too: readers need writers…don’t take them for granted.

       
  23. lord_spyridon

    07/14/2012 at 8:51 pm

    On top of what the others are saying, I think for new authors, they might also compare how many followers/favorites their stories have compared to others. I know I do that based on the reviews.

    Personally with the follows/favorites, since I was the only one that knew each number for each story I wrote. I would compare my stories against the others I wrote. Now, I find myself not only comparing the reviews, but the followers and favorites as well. I think we should just keep it based on reviews, updates, and publish date.

     
    • lord_spyridon

      07/14/2012 at 8:57 pm

      It just hit me while I was publishing the previous comment.

      Why not have a button for recommending a story instead of showing favorites/followers? Each viewer can have one rec per story so that way you don’t inflate the number of recs a person can have on a story. Also, give the choice to unrec something. I know there have been a few times where I liked a story in the beginning then didn’t in the later updates.

      On my LiveJournal, I have a list of recs and I know other authors do that are kept offsite.

      Oh, and I’ve been wondering if you can add another column for the story alerts on the profile page. I find myself having to go through my story alerts to find stories that have been completed and I’ve forgotten to remove them. It’d be cool to actually see a column with WIP or C so I know which ones to remove without having to click on each and every story.

      You should see about adding another status category for abandoned/hiatus fics. Just a thought.

       
      • favonilla

        07/15/2012 at 12:09 am

        I’d like to second the suggestion about having a recommendation button. The thing is, now the box has been opened on stats, there’s no solution to the impasse between those who love it and those who think it’s utterly hateful. Whatever is or isn’t done about it, a whole lot of people are going to be not happy.

        Lord Spyridon has at least come up with a workable compromise. The only down side I see to it is that older stories (ie those that were there before the changes came in) would be unlikely to pick up as many recommendations as those posted after such a function became available.

        Apart from that, it seems like a workable mid-way course between the two opposing sides.

         
      • alixe75

        07/15/2012 at 3:56 am

        What about old and good stories. Do you think people will come back on stories they have had appreciate to recommand it ?

         
  24. bobmin356

    07/14/2012 at 9:49 pm

    I can’t think of a more useless feature than sorting by any stat which ideally should be visible to only the author. We have plenty of decent sorting capabilities right now, but sorting by such dubious metrics as favorites and reviews is just dumb and misleading.

    My last completed fic is currently sitting at 2,085 reviews for 525,142 views, 310 C2s, 2,387 Favorites and 1,889 alerts. Reviews vs Views suggest that almost no one who reads, reviews. Other authors in the same fandom that I’ve talked to report similar numbers so I’m pretty sure I’m not an anomaly.

    There are so many other things that could be done that would be real improvements, such as allowing us to search on stories that EXCLUDE certain characters, or allow authors to voluntarily label their stories as being slash or het and letting searches that exclude one or the other.

    Also, can we please go back to our all white background if we want? I don’t like the boxy appearance we have now.

     
  25. Rayfan

    07/14/2012 at 10:35 pm

    I don’t usually care one way or the other about most of the changes you make to the site, but this latest one is asinine. Why is each category page defaulting to “popular” now? What the heck is the point of that? In fanfiction people generally come to look for their particular areas of interest. Who on earth cares what fandom is “popular”? All this means is more unnecessary clicking or searching just to get the page to where you can actually find what you are looking for – i.e. alphabetical order.

    Please just let it default to alphabetical order and if people are actually looking for “popular” they can switch to that. Or let us set it individually so it defaults the way we want it to. Either way.

    I can put up with all the fatuous social networking stuff if some people have a use for it, but the above is just annoying and inconvenient for no useful purpose.

     
    • =.=

      07/15/2012 at 3:14 am

      The sole and ONLY FUNCTION of “Sort by Popularity” is to sort by popularity *gasp*; no more, no less. Having every titles automatically sorted by popularity serve no life altering stimulants to anyone. It will not going to make someone life a living hell or a heavenly experiences. So why rant about how it makes your web surfing annoying and inconvenient?

      That unnecessary clicking is only a SMALL mouse gesture and ONE click away. Does clicking that “All” button going to implode space time reality? Will moving your mouse a couple of inch break your delicate fingers? Is it wreaking your daily schedule when the website does not conform to your tiny insignificant expectation?

       
  26. Teng

    07/14/2012 at 10:39 pm

    Why are those follow boxes automatically checked? Will I have an option in the nearby future to choose my default buttons? I honestly don’t understand why they’re checked for me; sometimes I just want to read the fic but care nothing for the author’s other stories!

    I know follows and favs showing are here to stay because I’m sure enough people like it and not enough people despise it. But as for my opinion on it, reviews take minutes, follows and favorites take milliseconds. I just feel it’s so very unnecessary especially since authors are feeling violated. Also, a good number of people use their favorite list as their alert list because it’s just a lot more convenient. I’m not complaining about the setup, it’s just a fact which makes those numbers a little messed up.

    And here’s a request for sorting! I want to be able to choose no main characters when sorting through fanfics, like an (Any) character option. I would also enjoy sorting through two genre’s at the same time.

     
  27. TheFreelancerSeal

    07/14/2012 at 11:02 pm

    I didn’t think much of this new sorting feature, but now that I read what everyone is saying, I’m with the majority. I don’t think it’s anyone’s business what a story’s stats are, and plus, don’t you think it might encourage a little bit of reader-bias? If someone sees that a story has so many followers, couldn’t that lead to assumptions about the quality? Now, of course, reviews could do the same thing, but we never sorted by reviews until now. I’m thinking that sorting by stats could be a bit misleading to some. Not every story that has a high number of reviews is quality, and sorting by reviews could give those impressions.

    Now, some features have been ok, but this just seems like it’s putting information out there that no one really cares and has no buisness to know about except the author.

    On a somewhat superficial note, it seems that the new features have inflated profile pages too, although it could just be me. Basically, all the headers are now huge. I went to check out documents and the editing window seems smaller now too, although it could be just because both it and the list of headers are side-by-side.

     
  28. Bill

    07/15/2012 at 12:29 am

    Thank you thank you THANK YOU for not making ‘story/fave’ alerts default anymore, by no longer having those boxes force checked!

     
    • favonilla

      07/15/2012 at 3:12 am

      Thank you from me, too – your attention to this matter is very much appreciated.

       
    • m

      07/15/2012 at 7:05 am

      Thank you, FFNet and FP. I don’t know if the changes were a result of some of the comments or an independent decision, but regardless it is appreciated :)

       
  29. Gemma

    07/15/2012 at 2:19 am

    When you go to a library, the books there aren’t sorted from best to worst, are they? So why do it on a site with younger writers that get discouraged easier? I don’t think people should be able to sort by the most review/fave/followed. I mean, the older stories have already had their fame.

    But I think there should be a page in our profiles that let only us see how many faves and followers we’ve got for each of our stories. We should also be able to see how many people that have favorited and followed us, because all we’ve got is the emails.

     
    • tiquatue

      07/15/2012 at 8:10 am

      There is one. Open up Traffic Statistics and look under Legacy Story Stats. If you want to know how many people have favorited you as an author, look at Legacy Author Stats.

       
      • Gemma

        07/15/2012 at 8:18 am

        Oh ok, thanks! I didn’t see that.

         
      • tiquatue

        07/15/2012 at 10:20 am

        You’re welcome! For many years those were the only stats we had. Personally, I like them better than the new ones, but that’s just because I’m more familiar with them.

         
    • konarciq

      07/16/2012 at 4:18 am

      “When you go to a library, the books there aren’t sorted from best to worst, are they?”

      Good point.

       
  30. Carol

    07/15/2012 at 4:41 am

    I’m having problems uploading and publishing. I get an error message from Internet Explorer saying it cannot display the webpage each time. Can someone help? send by email subject I.E. help

     
    • MissPriss

      07/15/2012 at 9:51 am

      I think this is all just a tempest in a teapot, frankly. It’s not the default; no one HAS to use these sort options.

      I think people need to give readers and writers a bit of credit for being smart enought to realize that a new story with low counts can still be good. Give young writers credit for being tougher than that. I am so tired of seeing the arguments about protecting their poor widdle feewings. I have yet to see ONE of these little darlings actually complain.

      It’s a free site, people. Calm yourselves and just enjoy the ride. I swear, some of the people here seem like they’d organize a protest rally if somebody sneezess somewhere! “Protect the pollen! It’s being bullied! It’s rights are being taken away!”

       
      • m

        07/15/2012 at 2:24 pm

        Young writer here…I think you’ll see that I’ve complained quite a bit.

         
      • Livia

        07/18/2012 at 9:15 pm

        Agreed, LOL. People need to understand that if they’re gonna post their stuff on the internet, they’re gonna have to take what happens. There’s no shame in not being on the first page. It’s like going back to elementary school. Not everybody can win. Otherwise, nobody wins. And not everybody gets published, either, so for the serious writers out there this is something we all have to get used to.

         
  31. Livia

    07/15/2012 at 9:14 am

    Oh, for sake, people.

    How is this an invasion of privacy? People already judge by review count, sorting by it isn’t going to change anything. Like it wasn’t a competition already. This is the internet, everybody’s worried about popularity. If you don’t like your stats, go review other people and get out there, instead of coplaining that it’s unfair to low-profile authors.

    And I like that it shows the stats. Especially with slash fics, people subscribe without reviewing. Since when do we have a right to not let anybody see our stats? They’re there, just face it.

    I’ve liked the updates so far. Keep up the good work, admin.

     
  32. Wicked

    07/15/2012 at 9:20 am

    I don’t see what the problem is, really. So what if it makes FP and FF more competitive? If you aren’t okay with competing with other writers for views, don’t post your stories online. And if you use reviews solely for feedback and don’t think they should determine the popularity of the story, why do you even care? Nobody’s forcing you to use the sort by review option.

    Frankly, I think it’s ridiculous to worry about the new options harming writers’ self esteems. This is a site to read and post stories, not to boost your self esteem. If somebody’s sensitive enough to stop writing when they aren’t getting the hits they want, they should keep their writing to themself until they gain more confidence.

    Youtube and many other sites show subscribers, and nobody has a problem with that. Why is it any different if fictionpress and fanfiction.net do the same?

     
  33. JJ

    07/15/2012 at 10:28 am

    Sorting by oneshots o multichapter, please.

     
  34. ALT

    07/15/2012 at 12:52 pm

    The most amusing thing I’m finding about this update is that how many people asked for this specific update, and now that we’ve been getting results, people are unhappy.

     
  35. Miss Peeps

    07/15/2012 at 1:00 pm

    I think the sorting update is a great update. When reading, I’ve wanted to be able to sort through stories like this for a long time. There are some good stories on fanfiction.net, but there are a lot more bad ones. This more or less makes sorting them out a lot easier.
    Finally, FanFiction.Net has a method of quality control. Thank you~

     
  36. Kierany9

    07/16/2012 at 1:46 am

    Wait…this update was requested? WHY!?!?! It makes it seem like Facebook, competing for more ‘favs’ People will assume that the more popular are the best, thus leaving anybody new in the dust. Ever heard of privacy? Reviews. Were. ENOUGH! I’m also seriously ticked off by Xing’s response to this in yesterdays update.

     
    • Izraill

      07/16/2012 at 7:27 am

      Kierany9, think aobut this: What’s the default sorting option in a Deviantart or Youtube search? POPULARITY. Does that let anybody in the dust? NO. Does it affect privacy? NO.

      The only problem is that it wasn’t in FF/FP before, that’s the only reason we’re complaining.

       
      • Kierany9

        07/16/2012 at 1:54 pm

        Youtube is by relevance and I would complain if I was on DA(If it was new-ish). An image is one pic. A story can last of ages until it finishes.

         
      • Izraill

        07/16/2012 at 1:58 pm

        Relevance is another word for popularity. And about the story, I’m going to write an endless story and I don’t care, so there’s no problem, nothing bad will happen.

         
      • Kierany9

        07/17/2012 at 7:58 am

        Relevance is not popularity. If there are two videos about cupcakes and one was about how to make cupcakes whilst the other had the word cupcake in the description, the first is more relevant than the second. Also, stories do not have to be endless. Short stories are screwed by this, as most stories are updated more and therefore have more chance to get followers.

         
      • konarciq

        07/17/2012 at 9:28 am

        Relevance has nothing to do with popularity.

        Besides, are Youtube and Deviantart meant as a means for people to *improve* their film making skills and their art making skills? I’m not very familiar with Deviantart, but unlike FFnet, Youtube never gave me that impression.

        I suppose we should be grateful that at least the default sorting setting is not by popularity here. But that still doesn’t mean that I have to agree to something merely because it’s common practice elsewhere. In fact, that’s the dumbest reason ever to agree to something!

         
  37. Colleen (@sleepyvalentina)

    07/16/2012 at 9:11 am

    We need an opt-out function for showing favorites/follow numbers. It doesn’t make it easier for users to find popular stories, it makes it that much harder for new stories to find readers.

     
  38. Graham King

    07/16/2012 at 10:21 am

    Displaying how many favs and follows a fic has doesn’t say anything about how good it is, some of the most illiterate scribblings on this site have a load of reviews, most of which are of the ‘gud stori rite moar’ variety.

    This is superfluous information.

     
    • m

      07/17/2012 at 1:59 pm

      I completely agree with this. A lot of times these ‘rite moar luvvvvvvvvv it omg!!!’ stories are not only poorly written but also not well-characterized. People just want to see their favorite characters get together and say cheesy renditions of the three words, no matter how OOC it actually is.

       
  39. Silvermoonlight

    07/16/2012 at 12:23 pm

    Although I’m not against the new features as I believe favs, follows are not the what writing is about its about story and the enjoyment of creating a piece of work that you love and other people love, I wouldn’t like this to go any further like seeing hit counts would be one step to far. The downside of these favs and follows is I think it will cause jealousy and animosity for the newer readers and the readers who are working to become better may become disheartened by the feature because of this I feel they should have the right to an opt out feature.

     
  40. Be Rose

    07/16/2012 at 3:21 pm

    Not every story can be a favourite and a complete story doesn’t need to be followed anymore. Readers don’t all want to leave a review. Some stories might not a favourite but just liked. Can there be something between no reaction and favourite, a ‘like’ for instance? It would be nice to know if readers liked a story even if it wasn’t a favourite.

     
    • Izraill

      07/16/2012 at 6:14 pm

      this is not facebook -.-

       
      • DC111

        07/16/2012 at 10:25 pm

        Agree with Izraill here. Besides, the stats and options are becoming so many, that’d just add more to the near-clutter.

         
  41. DC111

    07/16/2012 at 10:26 pm

    Is there a chance we could have a sort by reviews-per-chapter option? It would be good for oneshots, and not to mention more fair.

     
    • Livia

      07/17/2012 at 5:42 am

      Agreed. I was just about to say that myself, really. The only stories with a ton of reviews are super long, and what about the oneshots?

       
  42. Kakarot Son

    07/17/2012 at 5:45 am

    I might be the only one with this opinion but- I believe the new sorting options, especially sorting by reviews was a brilliant idea.
    It means that I can quickly find some of the more epic stories in a new fandom and rule them out as done, and hopefully move progressively throughout the fics from best to not-so-good.
    I’ve also been wanting something like it for a while, it lets you see where your own stories stand in terms of the fandom community.

     
  43. Livia

    07/17/2012 at 2:13 pm

    People who get high review counts usually work their butts off for them. The only way to get a ton of reviews is to review other people. From what I’ve seen of review counts compared to hits to profile, it’s almost a direct correlation. The more reviews you give, the more hits to your profile page you get, and the more times you get more reviews. I’ve given 1,040 something reviews, and gotten 1,300 something hits. People who work for reviews are more likely to work at their writing, and so that’s how better stories get generally more reviews, in general.

    It isn’t a direct correlation, of course. You seem some really amazing stories that don’t get reviews, but isn’t that usually because the author doesn’t review others?

    I think there should be a display of review count on people’s profiles. Reviews they’ve given, not the number they’ve received. Many people post things and then don’t read other people’s work, and then they think they’re entitled to reviews themselves. It’d be good to see which members review others, and how that affects their review count. Because I bet it does.

     
    • Bienfait

      07/18/2012 at 9:00 pm

      I don’t think it is just a matter of “review and you’ll get reviewed”, Livia. I know one author in my fandom who never engages at all – doesn’t review, doesn’t reply to reviews received, never answers PMs as far as I know, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen them in the forums either – but their stories get heaps of reviews. Basically, if it’s good writing and a good story, people will be moved to leave feedback.

      Your suggestion may have merit, but a lot of people leave reviews without signing in – are they going to have to remember to do so every time, so that their reviews count towards their total? And will writers start getting a lot more of those utterly useless “like it plz rite more” reviews, simply because other writers want to get their review figures up?

       
      • Livia

        07/18/2012 at 9:10 pm

        No, it isn’t quite so simple, and forgive me for being so black-and-white. But in general, unless you’re seriously awesome, you’re reviewing other people to get reviews. It isn’t random, that’s my general arguement. So I don’t think it’s as UNFAIR as everybody’s saying.

        Signing in takes about five seconds, I mean, come on. Especially with the new login features, I don’t see the problem with that. Although there have been the random-sign-out issues lately, and that stinks.

        Good point about the quality, though. Hmm. Personally, I think more “like it plz rit more” is better than nothing. We can’t force people to give proper criticism. :/ I guess it depends on what way you look at it. Good points.

         
  44. Melody Syper Carston

    07/18/2012 at 4:16 pm

    This isn’t right. The number of faves and followers should be kept private for only the author to see. I’m completely fine with displaying the number of reviews (the reviews have been displayed since I’ve joined fanfiction, and I’ve never seen/felt anything wrong about it), but faves and follows are a bit much in my opinion.

    This may just be me, but I feel a sense of pride whenever I check my stats and see for myself how many others have favourited and reviewed and read and followed my stories. Because I can look through the list and think, “These are successful in some way or another.” But now that the favourites and follows are being shown as well, that pride has deffinitely gone down a few notches.

    Now, I feel as though it’s no longer about enjoying stories, but it’s more of a competition on, “who can get to the first couple of pages when these fics are sorted by favourites, followers, or reviews?”

    It’s intimidating, and I feel I’ll lose my followers or readers (etc.) because there are other stories out there with more favourites than mine.

     
  45. Lx

    07/18/2012 at 7:32 pm

    I’m not sure this is the correct update for this comment but THANK YOU FOR THE NEW COMMUNITY STORIES SORTING FEATURES i have been waiting for this forever, thank you so much god bless you

     
  46. Tribi

    07/19/2012 at 1:12 pm

    I love the new sort by functions, I used to switch to mobile view just because it made it easier to see how many reviews a story got. I realize it isn’t a perfect way to find stories but sometimes there are so many you need to start somewhere.
    I also like being able to sort by genre and date. For me fanfiction is (usually, but not always) all about getting the fix delivered as efficiently as possible, the more filters and buttons the better.
    I’m really happy with the updates, thanks for the hard work.

     
  47. Leah S.

    07/19/2012 at 2:54 pm

    I’ve seen and heard a lot of complaints about this favs/follows thing, and I have to agree. Having it next to the story summary is completely pointless: it shouldn’t matter to the reader how many other people have read the story. If the reader really cares, they could have simply read the reviews first, or just gone by the numbers to know that there was something worth commenting on in the story. It’s a little redundant, it feels a touch invasive, and I do worry about how new stories will fare. Sorting by reviews alone would lead you to the biggest stories – why bother having three separate ways to play the numbers game? It doesn’t add much to the experience, and it takes a lot away. This should be a community that’s supportive, not competitive. Ultimately, reviews are more constructive than someone clicking fav/follow, and I feel like since it’s being shown, some readers will feel as though they have done their part to show their support by faving/following, and the authors will miss out on some critical feedback. While my stories have been minorly affected by the changes (mostly positive, actually), I would still beg for the new fav/follow visibility/sorting to be altered or removed in order to promote a more level playing field. I found that I am already following the top stories in some categories, and to my surprise, those authors also felt uneasy about the changes. Please listen to all these comments and take them into consideration. This is the primary fanfiction site, and I think most of us wouldn’t bother commenting if we didn’t want to stay and enjoy it as we have been, some of us for a very long time. Thanks!

     
  48. Leah S.

    07/19/2012 at 3:18 pm

    One more point I didn’t address: Though the additional features were made available with the readers in mind, I’d like to point out that FFN is a site that should be concerned about its authors. After all, without the huge community of authors that have chosen to use the site, it wouldn’t have the readership it does now. And in the end, the readers will go where the authors do – no matter how it’s sorted, or rated, or liked, it’s about selection. Display is secondary. While it is true that all authors need readers, this isn’t a chicken or the egg quandary. One comes first. Which will you nurture?

     
  49. animegleek

    07/19/2012 at 6:10 pm

    hmm…I guess I was really IGNORANT at that time…I’m sorry for using that word in the wrong way…I was just really driven mad….but still I hope they pull those faves and followers down because I don’t really think its necessary. About the reviews I guess as an author I need them because I want to know what readers think, sometimes their constructive criticism help you improve your knowledge in English…once again I’m so sorry for using that word.

     
  50. Kayla C.

    07/20/2012 at 1:19 am

    Could you please, pretty please make the communities available on the mobile version of the fanfiction.

     

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