Zoom zoom…

18 Aug

We are on a never-ending quest to improve our delivery network and are happy to announce another 6-12% performance speed-up for both the desktop and mobile site.

This speed-up will be most noticeable for those on mobile devices on cellular networks (Edge/3G/4G) and our friends accessing from overseas such as Asia, Australia, Europe, and South America.


Posted by on 08/18/2012 in performance



370 responses to “Zoom zoom…

  1. ~Cherry!~

    08/18/2012 at 7:58 am

    Tired of seeing countless stories breaking the rules by not using correct grammar or spelling or even the ‘Songfics’ and create-your-own stories posted on the website could there possibly be a way to solve this by holding stories under moderation for a while before there actually published? Such as, instead of seeing the ‘Congratulations your story/chapter is published but may take some time to be seen on the site’ be the same but with added; ‘Your story will be held under moderation until view-able by the public?’

    I understand that there will be a 99% possibility that the answer will be no as having admins active 24/7 and moderating such stories will take effort and too much staff but my question is, will there be anything to ‘fix’ the problem of lazy authors who just tick the box saying they’ve read the rules & guidelines without actually reading them and to lesson the amount of stories that are songfics, Q&A’s and ‘ask the character’ stories? Maybe by having the system where one has to enter the visual/audio code as well as ticking the box for the rules and guidelines? (This may seem annoying but overall good considering that this will only have to be done once every new published chapter.)

    Also could there also be a notification for users to announce to them if a story they reported as violated has had action taken. Such as: Notice the story —– which you reported has been removed/ modified and not seen to be violating any rules etc? Could this be done as a small pop-up on the website or e-mail similar to subscription and review alerts?

    • Just passin' through

      08/18/2012 at 9:03 am

      Or, you know, instead of whining you could move past those stories onto something you wanted to read.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/18/2012 at 12:01 pm

        If it were that easy I would. Rule breaking authors don’t make it easy when they post chapters as new stories and such, too many stories are ‘songfics’ and create your own. Many authors would be a lot happier if they were removed so they can actually read the stories which contain original plots and words not lyrics.

    • ShotgunWilly

      08/18/2012 at 9:45 am

      Eh…. I honestly can’t think of any way to force an author to actually read and consent to following the rules. What we have now isn’t a bad system and people who are lazy and just click through that screen without reading the rules aren’t likely going to start because of a different method. Not unless FFnet gets REALLY annoying about it, and, personally, I feel like that would push me to go towards somewhere else.

      I wish more than anything else that the authors who have horrible grammar – know it, and don’t do anything about it would be punished. Even moreso when those authors don’t react well to people commending on their grammar and refuse to go back and edit up horrendous chapters. It’s just that the volume of fics is so great that it would be impossible to moderate every published chapter.

      Also, The notification idea would be nice. I was shocked, but very happy, when I actually got a reply back from FFnet re: one of my support reports after not ever hearing back from them about my requests for 6 years.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/18/2012 at 10:06 am

        6 Years!?!? My that’s a very long time! I’m surprised they even keep records that long!
        That kinda leaves me doubtful though, if it takes the site six years to read a support request, I might as well go to another site for fanfiction…

      • KageNoNeko

        08/18/2012 at 11:09 am

        I have been able get a response from support after sending two emails about two different set of real people fanfiction. I would say six years is a very long time to wait for support.

        I would love it if they had an ability to be more responsive about abuse reports.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/18/2012 at 11:22 am

        That’s what they need to improve on. Not changing the site with faster load time, or making images bigger and messing with the fonts. Instead of making the site look better they need to improve on making the site work!

      • KageNoNeko

        08/18/2012 at 11:34 am

        So very true.

    • lothinielflowermaiden

      08/18/2012 at 9:47 am

      Personally, I have to see that I hope they don’t take your suggestion about having stories moderated before they can be posted, because that is unfair to everyone who does take the time to read over their story before posting a new chapter. For me the best part of posting a new chapter is then watching and seeing my hit count go up and knowing that people are reading my story. If it had to go to moderation first, then that would take away the biggest enjoyment I get out of updating and I would probably want to stop posting my stories.

      I mean, I would love it if all the letter stories in my main fandom stopped being posted, because I do find most of those kind of annoying. And they are technically against the rules, since the letters are reviews that people leave for the story and then the writer responds as if a character was responding to those letters. But I don’t think it’s fair of you to complain about the spelling and grammar issue when some of the people writing stories may be writing in a language that isn’t there first language. I have seen one really good story that was written by someone whose first language was not English, and the story had a few minor grammatical errors. None of those errors detracted from what was still a very enjoyable story, though. And I have yet to find typos that can detract from a story either, although some cause a little momentary amusement. So exactly how far are you planning to go on the insistence on spelling and grammar? Are you saying that stories shouldn’t be allowed past moderation if they have a few typos?

      And considering that so few people write about my favorite character, I’d rather see stories that didn’t have perfect spelling and grammar than have days where I didn’t see any new stories because everything got stuck in moderation.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/18/2012 at 11:58 am

        I mean the stories which clearly show the author doesn’t care about English Grammar or spelling at all. Of course a few errors should be allowed, but if a whole story has unreadable grammar then why should it not be deleted from the site?

      • Guet

        08/19/2012 at 12:53 am

        lothinielflowermaiden makes some good points, particularly when it comes to authors whose first language is not English. This is the case for many of my favorite authors on this site.

        Sometimes, when they first post, they don’t use traditional quotations and punctuation as is used in English. But as they grow more confident, they get better. Comparing their first stories to their more recent work shows great improvement. I’d hate to think these talented storytellers wouldn’t have posted here because their work might be deemed ‘unfit.’

        One of the aspects I like about this site is how it’s open to everyone. We all have the choice to not read a story if we don’t like it. For the record, I hate those so-called stories written in chat-speak, and show a total disregard for the language. But I don’t like the idea of appointing moderators to approve work. It will come down to a select few people deeming what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.

        As I frequent many smaller fandoms, I’d also rather have a story with a few typos and a few instances of poor grammar than no stories at all.

    • Just Another Cynical Student

      08/18/2012 at 1:38 pm

      How about, for the grammar and spelling thing, they implemented an actual correction-thingy like there is in Microsoft Word and LibreOffice? It might encourage people to correct their stories more, and it would probably ease the trouble of misspelling hard words and having to look them up in an online dictionary or something.

      I dunno. I just think it would be better than the current thing where the words are only marked as wrong. It’s annoying when I have to look them up, or sometimes I just keep trying different ways of writing it ’till I get it correct. It’s annoying. (>.<)

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/18/2012 at 1:42 pm

        There’s already a proof-read and a spell-check button on the site. When your editing a chapter there’s a button at the end on the top column that say’s proof-read.

      • S.

        08/19/2012 at 10:17 am

        Er, I mean no offence, but that’s kind of the point. If you look things up, they’re more likely to stick in your mind. You’re also more likely to learn if you do the corrections yourself. Ffnet have made this to encourage people to make the corrections… if someone ignores it, it’s because they don’t want to put the effort in to proofread their work.

        I would also hate it, personally, if a computer told me I was wrong without giving me the chance to verify it myself, and not only that, forced me to put something back to the way it was if it changed something wrongly. The spellcheck in the Doc Manager keeps telling me that ‘sighed’ isn’t a real word, when obviously, it is. It also has no option for British English, which is what I use.

        That’s one thing I WOULD welcome, Xing – British English spell- and grammarcheck.

      • konarciq

        08/20/2012 at 10:18 am

        Not that I use computer language checks, but I know many people do. So yes, *please* add a British English one!

    • Sebastian

      08/18/2012 at 7:58 pm

      I understand your feeling. I have to through a pile of rule breaking fics, fics with horrible grammar, chat script, non-fanfiction, OC submit, and some useless announcements to get through normal fics. This is very annoying. I hope they are forced to read the rules…THOROUGHLY.

    • Unyielding Wish

      08/18/2012 at 8:34 pm

      Yes, I get what you’re thinking, but the bulk of the Vocaloid section of FanFiction is made up of songfics. Since Vocaloid is a singing program, people take these songs for inspiration. They actually are.

      I haven’t seen that much “create-your-own” stories yet though. Aside from some contests that have been posted in the story section, I can’t find any.

      Maybe it’s just our job to tell them they’re wrong.

      Or maybe the admins can make “moderators” come into the scene for each section of each site, and they read the incoming fics. Will that do? As a writer of two or three songfics, I’m not quite happy with the idea of simply removing some of the best works on the site, but sometimes I guess we all need a little warning.

      • yemi hikari

        08/18/2012 at 10:23 pm

        I don’t have pity for writers who lose their fanfics because they used copyrighted lyrics in their stories. Sure, I’ll give them a warning and a chance to edit the story before I report, but I have more sympathy for the song writers whose copyrights are being infringed upon.

      • Unyielding Wish

        08/19/2012 at 4:41 pm

        yemi hikari- Hmm, you do have a point. I’ll go check my stories now if they gave credit…

      • izraill

        08/19/2012 at 7:48 pm

        I don’t care about copy right, but if the song fics are just the song with a few lines, then they must be deleted.

        @Yemi hikari Ummm, don’t care and I’ll never guve a F**k about copyright in song lyrics.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 8:38 pm

        @ Unyielding Wish – And while a few lines do legally fall under fair use via the law, the music companies are the ones with the lawyers and the money to fight the battle in court and they have thus pretty much erased “fair use” for music lyrics. Even publishing companies are afraid of stepping on their toes. I don’t report fanfics that have one to two lines, but that doesn’t hold the same for other people on this site.

    • S.

      08/19/2012 at 10:08 am

      I don’t think that moderation is a good idea. For one thing, it seems impractical, considering the size of the website. But, just as much as that, the lack of moderation of stories is one of the main attractions of this website. True, it means there’s a large amount of rubbish, but it also allows writers to grow and flourish in ways that moderated sites, I’ve found, don’t. Another problem with moderating stories is that it’s incredibly subjective – where one moderator might say a story is okay, another might not. This isn’t something I’ve made up – I’ve heard reports of it happening on other websites and it’s hugely discouraging for authors.

      Finally, having a delay for posting times would mean the end of competitions held in the forums, because those have deadlines that need to be adhered to. Competitions inspire a lot of brilliant, well-written stories from authors who have incentive to care about the quality of their work; they also create a sense of community spirit among authors and encourage reviewing.

      The visual/audio code wouldn’t work. If someone is not going to read the guidelines, they’ll just type in the code without reading them. Meanwhile, it’ll greatly annoy the people who actually do read them.

      However, I totally agree with your last paragraph! At the moment, I have no way of knowing whether my reports have gone through and made a difference without checking back, something which I can forget to do.

      • MissPriss

        08/19/2012 at 11:01 am

        It SHOULD put an end to those competittons, if you are referring to the SYoT, Creat-a-Cat, OC Contest, Submit-a-Plot garbage that floods some fandoms. Those are interactive and already against the rules.

        I see no problem with writing competitions as a way to help writers grow, but they belong in the forums, not posted as stories.

      • S.

        08/19/2012 at 11:06 am

        MissPriss: I can’t respond to you directly since there’s no reply button for some reason, but I think there has been a misunderstanding about what I meant. I meant the competitions that are in the forums – I loathe competitions and challenges that are posted as stories and have reported them before now.

        Here is what I said: “Finally, having a delay for posting times would mean the end of competitions held in the forums…”

        I’m not sure how that was misconstrued.

      • MissPriss

        08/19/2012 at 12:26 pm

        Apologies to S. I did read your comment wrong. I just despise those horrid contest things so much that I overreacted and pounced too soon.

      • S.

        08/19/2012 at 1:04 pm

        Apology accepted, MissPriss. 🙂

    • NKY

      08/20/2012 at 8:33 pm

      Please go to another site – please. This is not the time nor the place for this. If you don’t like it, you can leave. SERIOUSLY.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/21/2012 at 6:45 am

        Oh wait you mean I can’t leave comments that could help the site and improve it? Darn see, THAT’S where I was going wrong(!)

    • jpb

      08/20/2012 at 10:52 pm

      Cherry, I agree that I hate seeing far more stories than I can count constantly uploaded that don’t even attempt to follow the rules and then when someone points out that they didn’t know that they violated the rules you point out the rules that plainly say what is not allowed.

      Perhaps instead of just clicking a box that SAYS you have read and agree to follow the rules there should be a quiz of sorts before you can load a new story. Each writer has to answer three random questions before being allowed post. You miss more than one question and you have to wait 24 hours to try again…with a different set of questions. Completely automated and no one can then say they “Missed” that section of the rules that deemed their story in violation.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/24/2012 at 11:58 am

        Hey that’s a good idea! Much more ‘fun’ then what I had in mind. Problem with that is that most people would think it’s time-wasting, I’d rather spend two minutes completing a quiz once per story to actually submit a non-rule breaking fiction.

    • GGG

      08/23/2012 at 2:51 am

      I agree with Just passin’; if you don’t like something, move on. Over-moderation is a really good way to chase away most of the users from your site; the anime addventure is a textbook example of that. I proofread my stories pretty good; once in a while, something slips through, but generally they’re in good shape. And if FFNet ever starts moderating them to the standard you’re suggesting, I’ll be publishing somewhere else. I’m not going to have my stories sitting in limbo for days while a group of mods decide if I’ve used my commas correctly. There’s just no need for that insane degree of moderation. These stories you’re describing aren’t really hurting anything; since you have a wide array of things to read, the only reason to be so stringent is following the rules for the sake of following to the rules. And that’s just a waste of everyone’s time and energy. Work very hard on your own stories, and leave others to worry about theirs.

  2. Cassie1234

    08/18/2012 at 7:58 am

    Thank you!

  3. Mahala

    08/18/2012 at 9:03 am

    Just continue to “zoom zoom” about getting rid of real person fictions, that’s my primary concern with the site. Real person fictions are the worst offenders, since besides just being disrespectful (no matter how well intentioned) to the person they’re writing about, treating them as if they’re some kind of intellectual property instead of a living, breathing person, the stories have no relevance to any category on the site. One Direction, Justin Bieber, and people like that don’t have legitimate TV shows, movies, etc. They’re pretty much spam-like and clog up the archives, cover up other people’s stories, and make it difficult for readers to find what they’re looking for. The other day when I actually had some free time, I reported every single Justin Bieber fiction that showed up in the search feature (and plan to do the same with the One Direction fictions at some point). I used an email to list links instead of individually reporting them though, because I never would have gotten done that way. I hope those email reports (I submitted three, each list featured over a hundred stories) are taken into consideration because if so, a good bit of space will certainly be freed up.

    Have you thought about sort of ‘freezing’ the Misc. categories temporarily (if that’s possible), to go through them and delete the rule-breaking fictions while keeping people from adding even more? It might show them that you guys are actually serious about the rules and that they need to post these stories elsewhere if they insist on writing them at all. The One Direction fans/writers are relentless; you report one story, it gets removed, then gets reposted by the author while another boatload are added. All the while, there are at least three designated One Direction fanfiction sites out there I know of; you Google them and there they are, but yet the writers still continue to post on FanFiction. Where is the logic in that? I believe this One Direction craze has been the worst example of real person writings, with Justin Bieber being second.

    Again though, it’s not just One Direction, but plenty of others. Various bands, actors/actresses, etc. Misc. TV shows category is a joke, almost nothing but One Direction stories and reality show types.

    I just can’t get over this “thing” with real person fiction, so pardon my babbling. I just can’t see the logic in that sort of writing.

    • KageNoNeko

      08/18/2012 at 9:58 pm


    • yemi hikari

      08/18/2012 at 10:31 pm

      The site admins could actually use their own story search feature for the real person’s name. While some of the fanfics are about canon characters arguing over whether Justin Bieber was a good singer or not, but he never appears. Most however will have Bieber show up. In the same regaurd they can type in “song fic” or “songfic” and get TONS of fanfics using song lyrics not in the public domain. What will have the most effect on these people is if there was a mass purge using this method. Particularly a mass purge of the One Direction fanfics, because from what I’ve heard they are the worst.

      • Pierce

        08/19/2012 at 10:45 am

        They are. They like arguing through PMs, asking their friends to complain through PMs too, and adding whiny author’s notes to their stories. When their story/stories finally do get deleted, they re-upload it/them. Unlike other rule-breakers, you can never trust them on their word either. Even when they thank you and say that they will delete it, there’s still a very large chance that they’ll simply add an authors note and continue updating anyway.

        Honestly, doing a big purge on both songfics as real person fics would do the site a lot of good. The same goes for MSTs; those usually contain copyrighted material too. I’m not saying that other rules aren’t important, but there’s still a difference between songfics and chat-script; I’d rather get rid of the first before even thinking about the second.

        And, this is mostly a complain by a critic, but can it be a little clearer that reviews *can* contain criticism, and critics are not nazis or bullies? If people want to insult me for being “mean”, sure, but comparing me (and others) to nazis or using the word “bullying” without thinking about actual bullying victims is just senseless.

        I’ve always loved FanFiction’s slogan, but a lot of authors are misusing it. People think that the site has no rules, and when pointed to them, they respond that they’re “unleashing their imagination” and that if there were rules, the site’s slogan would be different. It’s getting ridiculous.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/19/2012 at 1:58 pm

        Would have to agree with you Pierce. The problem with real person fiction is happening because the rules haven’t been enforced, and the people who post the fics don’t seem to even care.

      • MMC

        08/19/2012 at 12:59 pm

        @Pierce: I applaud you. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I’m also tried of people abusing the term “bullying”.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 4:14 pm

        @ Pierce – I’ve also seen this misuse of the term “bully”. Telling someone the truth is not causing that person harm, thus telling someone the truth is not being a bully. Makes me kind of scared about how kids are misusing this term off the web though and I have read an article about some kids falsely accused of being bullies, but in the end it turned out it was the accuser who was the bully, trying to bully the other kids into playing with them by using false accusations.

      • Unyielding Wish

        08/19/2012 at 5:20 pm

        Pierce- I don’t quite agree with you on some parts, but yes, I know that about one-third of the authors on this site get the word “bullying” wrong.

        Mostly that points to flaming and harsh constructive criticism. Sometimes people have trouble distinguishing between the two — because they really are hard to tell apart — but I have seen some authors complain about a review that simply wants the author to do better on the story. There are some fanfictions that begin like this:

        A/N: so hi i hope you enjoy this chapter

        [character name]: :\ you abused me

        [another character’s name]: yea

        And so on. It’s like they’re roleplaying with, well, themselves…

        I do hope that I haven’t gotten your comment wrong, however. -_-; I tend to stray off topic, onto my own worries…

      • MissPriss

        08/20/2012 at 6:33 am

        I still believe that the majority of these One Direction and Justin Bieber fanaticx honestly don’t understand that these stories aren’t allowed. I believe that an announcement and/or explanation on the homepage would help. Followed by a mass purge of real person fics, of course.

        And I agree that there should be clarification of the fact that not all reviews are going to be fawning praise. Telling a writer “This 1500 word block of text should be broken into paragraphs” or “Please spell-check” doesn’t make me a bully.

      • izraill

        08/20/2012 at 2:55 pm

        I’m not going to lie, in my critics I like to say the thing in the most hurting way possible, but I don’t use the word ‘you’ only the ‘your story’ and I never use bad words or insults. But I admit that I’m a bully.

      • KH

        08/20/2012 at 3:19 pm

        @Izraill: Why would you want to be a bully to another writer and say the most hurtful things to them you can think of? Do you think such actions actually make the writer listen to what your message is? Or is your intent TO hurt other people because you’re getting some kind of a kick out of it? You know the saying, what goes around comes around and for every time you act like a jerk to another writer, that’ll return to bite you on the *ss some day. I bet you whine and complain when someone pulls the same stuff on you, too. If you want your concrit to be taken seriously, you need to word it so that it is not cruel or nasty because cruel and nasty never wins.

      • izraill

        08/20/2012 at 3:24 pm

        I was bullied first, and in a way much worst than I ‘bully’. (of course if FFN admins check my account they’ll find nothing, because I don’t upload with the same account I review)

      • KH

        08/20/2012 at 5:52 pm

        @Izraill: So because you were bullied first, that gives you the right to turn around and be a bully? I find it interesting that you say you leave your bully reviews under another pen name, so while you can come on here and boast that you bully other writers, you must not have the backbone to actually do those reviews under your own pen name of Izraill, presumably because you fear that the writers you attack will turn around and attack you. Wow, what cowardice. I don’t think being a bully is anything to brag about and I think even less of people that engage in such actions. Pity that you seem to take such pride in being a jerk to your fellow writers, it doesn’t say much about you as a person, does it? It takes a big man to turn the other cheek and not lower himself to the same kinds of attacks that have been done to him, so I guess you’re a pretty small and petty little person, aren’t you? It’s been my experience that most bullies attack because they hate their own shortcomings and need to vent their rage on those that have the qualities or talents they lack, so you can take that any way you want to, Izraill.

      • MMC

        08/22/2012 at 4:44 pm

        @izraill: I don’t usually have opinions of people on this blog because, let’s face it, there’s a really slim chance we could ever come across each other on the actual FFN site; so why should we tag names or anything on one another right?

        However, YOU are an exception. I’ve seen some of your blog posts in this topic and honestly, they were somewhat whiny and a little rude, but hey, we all get like that sometimes since this is a direct way to contact site admins with public feedback; some of us are just more vocal about being that way than others. But for you to admit to using hurtful words in a review and act unforgiving for it…well, now you just lost all my respect for you even though I haven’t reply to any of your posts directly beforehand.

        There is nothing fun in hurting another person’s feelings and it’s even worse that you’re resorting to doing that since you were presumably ‘bullied’ beforehand. Repeating the actions of your offender DOES NOT make you look like the bigger person; it makes you look even smaller in comparison and it goes to show that you gave up the chance to even be the person with much more class and self-respect that that bully of yours. I don’t care if your bully was harsher than you could ever be in your ‘critiques’; there is no justification for you in doing the same thing to another person as pointed out by KH. Being a bully is nothing to be proud. If you think otherwise, then we agree to disagree (with me shaking my head at you). /end rant

  4. Angie

    08/18/2012 at 11:16 am

    A suggestion for both sites: Could the copyright signs be added back on to the stories and could the site be made in such a way that you cannot directly ‘copy’ a section of text (something similar to Wattpad, perhaps, where you can’t select the text directly in the stories)? There has been many cases of plagiarism, which resulted in discontinuation/removal of very good stories, as well as many writers shifting to different sites or stopped posting their stories online altogether. While the copyright may not do much to deter these awful plagiarists, at the very least, it gives a sense of comfort that others will copy at their own risks.

    However, I think that making people unable to select and copy texts would be the best, since I doubt that many would have the determination to copy out a story word-for-word.

    • StupidityNowOffersWisdom

      08/18/2012 at 12:16 pm

      I agree. However, desperate plagiarisers may simply take screenshots instead.

      (Doesn’t that defeat the purpose?)

      And there was an author that I know who got her account hacked by a real desperate plagiariser.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 4:15 pm

        They don’t even need to take screenshots actually, they just have to have the internet window on one half of the screen and their word document on the other half.

      • StupidityNowOffersWisdom

        08/23/2012 at 5:44 am

        Either way, they’ll find tons of ‘creative’ methods to plagiarise….

    • Blue-Inked Frost

      08/18/2012 at 7:11 pm

      Being unable to select and copy texts would also affect writers who want to quote from a previous chapter in their current chapter, or reviewers who want to quote small parts of the story in their reviews, or even people investigating cases of plagiarism who want to quote parts of a plagiarised story.

      • Shawnesty

        08/18/2012 at 8:23 pm

        And even if the site could implement something to prevent plagiarists from copying and pasting previously published works, they could get around it by just manually copying and typing the text in that they wanted to steal. The fact is, if idiots like that want to steal from other writers, they’ll figure out a way to do it. I was the victim of a nasty little plagiarist myself and it amazed me how many people stood up for her and defended her, even when the proof was right there in her work that she’d stolen from me, copying a passage of mine word for word. She and her fans made all sorts of excuses, including claiming that writers don’t have any right whatsoever to their work on here, that once it’s published on FFnet it becomes free for the taking by anyone who wants to use it, and writers who get ripped off by jerks like that should be honored and flattered that their works got stolen by some lazy fool who couldn’t be bothered to put the time and effort into their own work. I was actually villainized and nearly cyber-lynched because I stood up and fought for my right to keep my hard work my own, and even though I was nice enough to give the thief the option of either removing the stolen elements or rewriting them so the passage didn’t read like mine, I still got bullied by her fans who couldn’t understand why I was so upset that something I’d spent hours crafting was taken by an unscrupulous author who quickly needed a plot angle to fill out her daily dose of garbage. She was reported to the site and has since pulled her work and left, but there’s really no good way to put an end to plagiarism, other than to report it when it’s found and to call the plagiarist out on their thefts. But be prepared to have the plagiarist’s fans support and defend them because ethics are tossed out the window when people think they’re going to be deprived of their daily crapfic update.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/18/2012 at 10:03 pm

        Blue-Inked Frost, does have a point. If you want to give a writer some great critique, being able to copy the text from the story so you can point out a specific problem that is going on in the story.

      • yemi hikari

        08/18/2012 at 10:55 pm

        @ Shawnesty – I look over the cases over at stop_plagiarism. Not only do they have cases where the writers simply type it in, they’ve also recently had a case where someone found themselves accused of plagiarizing the plagiarist by the fans of the plagiarist despite the fact the date on the one fic was years before the other.

      • Shawnesty

        08/18/2012 at 11:49 pm

        @Yemi Hikari~ I actually had my plagiarist’s fans accuse me of giving her permission to borrow my stuff or throwing my story ideas at her to use and then getting mad or jealous when she allegedly wrote a much better scene than I did. I’ve never given anyone permission to use my stuff and I never share my ideas with anyone, and the notion that I would be jealous of her poorly-written crap was ludicrous and laughable. I was honestly surprised at how vicious and nasty they got, telling me I was upset that she supposedly had more readers than I did, which I guess if one wants to count all the billion sock accounts they’ve created to self-review, then sure she had more “readers” than I did. Never ceases to amaze me how low people will stoop in cases like that and all I can say is I’m really grateful I had friends and fans that backed me up all the way because it got pretty bad, to the point where I was physically sick from the stress the plagiarist and her pals were putting me under with their vile little attacks. So after my own experience, it doesn’t shock me to find that the friends of a plagiarist will try to accuse the original author of plagiarism themselves because people like that have no ethics or morals when it comes to writing.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 1:47 am

        @Shawnesty – Yuck. Just yuck. Hate sock puppets…

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 1:12 am

        I’ve had a story plagiarised by an author, and I just reported him and bingo. I was surprised it only took them three days to get back to me having removed the offending ‘work’! He even tried to claim that it was adopted. However, I had never even PM’d with him.

        HOWEVER, I do NOT want copy and paste gone. Its helpful in many ways: quoting for one, and copying a new chapter for off-line read’s is another. Anyway, there are Fanfiction Downloaders that would bypass it anyway, and they can download multiple chapters in one go in may different formats.

    • Guest

      08/19/2012 at 1:00 am

      I often copy and paste segments of a story when I review. I like to specifically quote dialogue that resonated with me, bring errors to the author’s attention, and comment on the author’s strengths.

      If that ability is taken away, I’d probably be less inclined to review since I don’t leave “Nice story” or “Update soon” reviews.

      • Angie

        08/19/2012 at 2:58 am

        True, I do copy-and-paste certain bits of text when reviewing, but it was a suggestion that I thought may work out, since the thought of someone typing out every single word of a chapter just to put on another site is a bit doubtful to me-but then again, there are persistent plagiarists.

        But some action should be taken, and I think adding the copyright should prevent people like those that Shawnesty mentioned, who claim that “writers don’t have any right whatsoever to their work on here, that once it’s published on FFnet it becomes free for the taking by anyone who wants to use it” from being able to say that.

        This matter really do make my blood boil. Whenever there’s a good fic, it’s very likely removed or discontinued because of brainless brats who thinks that another’s hard work, once online, is free for all to take. What kind of people are they?

      • Guest

        08/19/2012 at 4:24 am


        I’d be livid if someone plagiarized my work, so I definitely sympathize with anyone dealing with that. But stopping the average user from copying and pasting won’t do much to stop thieves. If they are that intent on stealing an author’s work, they will find away around any measures put in place to stop it. It’s sad that a few jerks can spoil an otherwise fun environment.

      • Shawnesty

        08/19/2012 at 3:57 pm

        In my case, I refused to let the plagiarist win. I felt with all the hard work and effort I’d put into crafting my own story, I’d be d*mned if I let some two-bit talentless hack writer rip me off just because she was too brainless or lazy to come up with her own plot ideas, plus my story had been on the site a good five months before hers showed up, so I wasn’t about to pull it and let her and her cronies win, even though they tried their hardest to force me from the site. I stood my ground and rose above the muckraking and bullying that went on in her review section, refusing to be baited by their attacks that oddly enough, stayed mostly out of my own review section, presumably because her socks that were supporting her lacked the cajones to confront me one on one. My advice to anyone who has been the target of a plagiarist is to NEVER pull your work because the publish date that their story first shows up on a site is proof that it existed before the plagiarist’s work did. Don’t be afraid to report the theft to site administrators, but make sure you have exact proof to include to back your claim up…in my case, her word for word copying was ample evidence of the theft, so make sure to include any such evidence in your report to support your claim. And don’t be afraid to call the plagiarist out…politely, of course, don’t get rude or nasty with them, but do be prepared for a battle because people that will actively plagiarise and the idiots who support them will sink to any low possible in order to defend what they’ve done.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 4:23 pm

        I’m going to note here that some people don’t believe in calling plagiarists out publicly, unless said plagiarist doesn’t comply. However, I say they should be called out publicly all the time, even if it just starts out in the reviews.

      • Unyielding Wish

        08/19/2012 at 5:27 pm

        EXACTLY! I usually do that when I want to correct someone, and when I beta-read something I usually send my reply back in a PM with parts of the story which I thought they should work more on, and usually I just copy-and-pasted. I don’t like the idea of taking that off the site.

        I mean, I don’t have a strong opinion, but just… -_- It’d take me more time to leave a review, and some of that time is really precious.

      • konarciq

        08/20/2012 at 11:43 am

        But if we couldn’t copy and paste from the site, we couldn’t copy stories onto our own computers for rereading offline either. Maybe I’m the only one going through that trouble, but I do it regularly. I’ve got all my favourite stories in Word format on my computer.

        And I agree. I too regularly copy bits and pieces from a story in a review. It’d be a shame if we couldn’t do that anymore. It’s so much easier to make clear what you’re talking about.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 1:13 am

        Its easy if the chapters are short, or its just a drabble! 🙂

    • konarciq

      08/20/2012 at 12:54 pm

      Question for ffnet in that case: how can we put a copyright on something that is violating copyright in the very core of its being? We’re “stealing” from TV shows, books, movies etc, but we won’t allow others to “steal” from us? Isn’t that a bit double?

      I agree that plagiarism should be fought, and for FictionPress, this might certainly be one way of legalizing the defence process. But for ffnet, to me it seems pure hypocrisy to talk about one’s own copyright on stories that basically are a violation of someone else’s copyright in the first place…

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/20/2012 at 1:01 pm

        Certain authors don’t give permission for fandoms on the site. (Anne Rice for example.)

      • KH

        08/20/2012 at 3:15 pm

        I’m not sure what you mean, Konarciq, when you say “ seems pure hypocrisy to talk about one’s own copyright on stories that basically are a violation of someone else’s copyright in the first place.” Are you saying that authors who post on here don’t have the right to keep their work their own? That because this is fanfic, anyone who writes stories must allow other people to take their ideas if they wish, simply because it isn’t copyrighted? If that’s what you ARE saying (and I seriously hope I’m wrong here), that’s pretty skewed thinking because no matter what format someone writes in, whether it’s fanfic, original fic, poetry, etc., all writers have the rights to their intellectual property and should be afforded the privilege of keeping said work free from the sticky little fingers of plagiarists. I know I’d be pissed if someone stole my hard work, so I seriously hope you’re not advocating that just because this is fanfic, all works on here are free for the taking by any unscrupulous author who wishes to help themselves to someone else’s ideas or text.

      • konarciq

        08/20/2012 at 3:50 pm

        @KH: Yes, I seemed to say that, didn’t I… Sorry for the indeed easy misunderstanding!

        But of course there is indeed a huge difference between an author *borrowing* characters and the premises of a book or a TV show and writing his own original story with them, and someone who simply *copies* things that others have written and publishes it as his own.

        The first – although officially classified as violating copyright – I cannot really *see* as violating copyright since there is so much original work from the author in it. But I’m well aware that fanfiction in itself *is* a violation of copyright.
        The second is outright plagiarism – copying other people’s work without any original input – and in that way it feels *more wrong* than what original fanfic authors do, who create new plotlines and everything.

        Still, even though the one feels more wrong than the other, we fanfic authors *are* in the wrong by definition. When a plagiarist steals something from my story, legally seen I would say it’s a case of a thief stealing from a thief. So what right do I have to complain?

        Technically, as I understand the law, we fanfic authors don’t have a foot to stand on to be complaining about someone violating *our* copyright on our stories, because we’re committing the same crime ourselves with those very same stories!

        But that doesn’t mean it is *right* for anyone and everyone to copy from our stories without our permission. Rather the opposite. However, since we are committing a similar crime, merely of a lesser degree, who are we to complain?

      • KageNoNeko

        08/20/2012 at 7:16 pm

        @konarciq, fanfiction lies in a very grey area of copyright law. Most authors that I have heard talking about fanfiction don’t have a problem with it. However there is other writers who really don’t like it.

      • KH

        08/20/2012 at 6:06 pm

        Konarciq: Thanks for the clarification, I see what you’re saying. But because fanfic writers are violating a copyright doesn’t mean that plagiarists have the right to steal from them and that fanfic writers don’t have the right to stand up and fight for their work. There’s quite a big difference between an author borrowing a show’s characters and canon elements to formulate an original plot or idea around VS. some lazy SOB copying that same author’s work because they’re too stupid to come up with something of their own. One is a far more worse violation than the other because while technically fanfic does violate copyright, to have your own original stuff stolen is an even harsher violation because you worked hard on the story and put your own time and energy into creating it, only to have some fool come along and rip you off. In essence, it’s like working hard at your job to earn enough money to buy a brand new car…you work and you scrimp and save until you have the money, then you purchase the car and six weeks later someone comes along and steals it, taking it out and wrecking it. Wouldn’t you be mad if that happened to you? So why should writers have something they’ve worked hard at get stolen by someone just because technically fanfic violates a copyright? Just because it’s violating said copyright doesn’t give anyone the right to steal someone’s ideas or plots, and if that happened to me, you can bet I’d be complaining and I’m sure you would be too. We own what we put down on paper, the words and thoughts that we create, the scenarios and ideas we come up with, EVEN in fanfic, and our stories should be respected as our own intellectual property and not borrowed from without our permission.

      • Shawnesty

        08/20/2012 at 6:22 pm

        @Konarciq~I can tell you that once you get your stories ripped off by some plagiarist, it feels much like a physical assault, or like a thief has invaded the privacy of your home to steal your belongings that you worked so hard to accumulate. Just because fanfic violates a copyright doesn’t mean plagiarists then have the right to help themselves to someone’s hard work, there’s a difference there. Most tv shows, movies or book authors don’t mind people writing fanfic around their established canon and some even actively encourage it, like JK Rowling. But someone who sits down and works on writing a story, even around pre-set canon, they have the right to have their work respected as their property because they’re the ones who have put the brainpower into it. And plagiarists do NOT have the right to take that hard work away from someone, even if it’s fanfic. Your argument is twisted in a sense because while yeah, technically fanfic writers are in violation of a pre-set copyright, that doesn’t give anyone the right to steal their hard work because it wasn’t the original copyright holder that wrote the story, it was the individual author. And any fanfic writer who gets ripped off has the right to complain because THEY’RE the ones that worked hard at their story, NOT the thief. Basically the way I understand what you’re saying is that all fanfic writers don’t have a leg to stand on in a plagiarism case because we’re committing plagiarism ourselves, and we have no rights to our work, yet thieves have the right to steal from us and we can’t complain if they do. Don’t know if you write fanfic yourself, but I was hit by a nasty little plagiarist and I felt like I had been physically and personally violated, like something that meant a lot to me had been rudely taken away from me by someone who thought that as long as it was fanfic, they could help themselves to everyone’s hard work and lay back and get credit for it. So you may have this kind of lassez-faire attitude towards an author’s rights on the site now, but you wait until you get ripped off and we’ll see if you’re singing the same tune.

      • dawnknits

        08/20/2012 at 7:17 pm

        I agree. FF does not violate copyright, but plagiarism is unethical. There is a difference.

      • Sara

        08/20/2012 at 8:00 pm

        Konarciq, even though fanfic authors are violating a copyright of previously written/filmed material doesn’t mean that plagiarists then have the right to steal from them. I see you’re a writer yourself, would you like someone helping themselves to your hard work or would you be fine with them stealing from you? One wrong thing such as borrowing characters or canon from something doesn’t cancel out another wrong thing of committing plagiarism. Most fanfic writers create original plots or scenes around the established canon elements and they’re entitled to maintain domain over their work because they’re the ones who’ve put the sweat equity into it. So I agree with the others, your argument is pretty screwed up and evidently you’ve never been the victim of a plagiarist before because if you had been, you wouldn’t be giving such lousy actions the green light…just because someone borrows from pre-written canon to create their own ORIGINAL work doesn’t mean someone else then has the right to borrow that ORIGINAL work and pass it off as their own. In no way does that EVER excuse plagiarism and I’m surprised that as a writer you’re condoning it!

      • konarciq

        08/21/2012 at 6:26 am

        @KH and Shawnesty: It seems to me we pretty much agree that plagiarism is a worse crime than writing fanfiction. In that matter, you two are both pretty much repeating what I was saying (or at least what I intended to say), just using different words.
        And just to emphasize that: I do not and never did mean to imply that plagiarists have a right to steal our stories and publish them as their own. And writing fanfiction is *not* the same as plagiarism.

        The only thing I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree upon is how much right we fanfic authors have to complain in the case it should happen. Oh well, I hope we can all live with having different opinions on things 🙂 (And yes, the *we* includes me, too.)

        And KH, one modification to your car analogy to make it more fitting to fanfiction: some of the money used to buy that car was stolen from your boss! LOL
        (And to be on the safe side: no, I do not accuse KH of stealing money – this is merely an analogy!)

      • KH

        08/21/2012 at 6:12 pm

        @Konaricq~LOL, well as you can guess, I love a good debate sometimes. Sounds like we’re pretty much on the same page, with just some slight variations of opinion.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 1:20 am

        However, FFN does respect the writes of authors not wanting ‘fakes’ of their works published. So don’t we have the same right? TV shows and other books don’t care because we keep their stories alive. It makes us think about those things and watch them etc., I guess.

        Its also about them using what is ours, (like we can go and used the first five chapters of Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief and then after that start carrying on from there AU.

        I suppose if we authors wouldn’t complain and gave props we could in theory write a fanfiction of a fanfiction!

      • konarciq

        08/23/2012 at 7:57 am

        @KH: Yeah, I love a good debate, too 🙂

        @Myrddin: Yes, I’ve seen fanfics based on other fanfics, and good ones, too! But in our fandom, we usually ask the author’s permission before doing so. And generally, they’re only delighted that someone thinks their work so good that they’re inspired to write a spinoff 🙂

      • konarciq

        08/24/2012 at 4:57 am

        @Sara: I don’t know how I managed to overlook your reaction here! Sorry! Please refer to my reply to KH and Shawnesty right below your post – it is a suitable reply to yours as well!

  5. Brad Hawk

    08/18/2012 at 11:38 am

    If you don’t like rule violators, join hands with Critics-reporting groups and help improving the site.

    Well, Thank you, Mr. Xing for continuously improving the great site.

    All hail you!

    • Mahala

      08/18/2012 at 1:22 pm

      I tried that, but most critic groups want you to review first and I tried that too, and no matter how polite and sensitive I was in my approach, I would either get a hostile response or a lie saying they would fix the problem, but not only did they not fix it, they continued posting the same kind of thing. I don’t waste my time on that anymore, especially not over a real person fiction. I just automatically report them because there’s no way to successfully edit that type to conform to site’s rules, given that they have zero relevance to any category they get posted in. I’ve tried informing these people about the appropriate web sites but it just falls on deaf ears (or blind eyes, actually). The only people who have the power are site admins, and until there’s some kind of process that qualified members can go through to become a site admin and increase staff size, the only thing I can do is report. Only once in a blue moon did I ever get a positive, sensible response out of a select few writers.

      • Unyielding Wish

        08/18/2012 at 8:39 pm

        I did that too. Mostly I got “okay” or “well other people are doing that too”.

        A few of the reported fictions have not even been erased, so now I’ve begun to wonder.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/18/2012 at 9:47 pm

        I have seen guests who review the same real person fanfiction that I have reviewed who will stick up for the writer and tell the author to block me. After having a guests insult me, I decided to email support a list of all of those fics.

        I have received responses back from support and I’m satisfied by how it has happen.

      • Random Ipsy

        08/22/2012 at 1:55 am

        Well, I’m not a big fan of critique groups, but as unappreciated as your polite warnings are, please keep doing them, because some people (though it can seem very few at times) will listen, and at least you’re being the bigger person. Plus, I myself would rather have a heads up before I get kicked in the face, wouldn’t you? lol.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/22/2012 at 11:52 am

        This is what I’m doing, and it is not easy because some people will come at you and try to say they are not breaking the rules.

      • MissPriss

        08/22/2012 at 1:19 pm

        I have agree. I always make the effort to be polite when pointing out rule violations, and some of these writers respond with such a level of hostility that it is tempting to just report and walk away.

        I guarantee that these are some of the same people who wail and weep that somebody should have warned them before their stories were deleted. They are so caught up in their victim role that they don’t realize someone DID try to warn them.

    • Myrddin

      08/22/2012 at 1:30 am

      Rules can be debatable and interpreted differently. Reporting groups should be stopped as heavily as people breaking rules. Mass reporting on one persons say is foolish. They might just not like the fic while it breaks NO rules.

      I’ve seen reviews that have been abusive and homophobic about T rated (for a reason) fem-slash/yuri (I don’t read slash) about the story should being M when they contain no M rated material. Now people like this could get their ‘critic’ pals together to attack this story because of preference, when when the summary might say yuri these people are there to attack.

      It seems this wouldn’t be a worry is the site admin looked into everything properly or in some cases at all. Heck, I’ve seen very tame M rated fics get deleted without violation or explanation of the reason to the author from admin.

  6. LightningStruckTower27

    08/18/2012 at 12:30 pm

    Well for copyright stuff, FFn could do a scan of every story that goes into the archives (And this wouldn’t really need an actual person) and see if any part of the story matches up with something copywrited.
    I guess the problem would be the disclaimers and the things copied from the original text/screen (I. E. Quoting word for word from a book or what a character said in a TV Show). So it kind of backfires there…
    Another thing, unless the original copywriter has a problem about it, what’s wrong with song fics? Most authors already say that the song doesn’t belong to them, and the only thing we yield from it are hits and reviews- Both which have no monetary value.

    • ~Cherry!~

      08/18/2012 at 12:40 pm

      Songs that aren’t in the public domain are (I think) linked into some sort of illegal or copyright thing. I think they can get sued if they allow it.
      That and personally I think songfics are just a lazy, unoriginal way of having an author show they can write. Most songfics contain lyrics with the character only speaking at the beginning or at the end. I don’t think you can be taken seriously as a writer if you rely on songfics, you don’t see them in actual published books after-all? If you have a songfic how much honestly did the author write that story? If they did just make it seem like the main character was singing another persons song and talk at the end, they should move their talents to YouTube by making fanvids.

      • Laania

        08/18/2012 at 6:10 pm

        Um, Cherry, just a little side note here but isn’t one of the most famous stories of all time have a song in it? I.E. the Harry Potter saga? Isn’t it in page 128 of the Sorcerer’s Stone that Dumbledore makes everyone sing? I think you’re criticizing too much on people who use a song for their whole ENTIRE story instead of a small song like in Harry Potter. I don’t believe people would contest that Harry Potter copyrighted anyone or ruined the series that is quite beloved. I think one of the most adored books back in 1910 by Gaston Leroux with his Phantom of the Opera where almost a sixth of the book was just a composition of songs. Also, what about the new series of the Hunger Games? A little girl in the beginning sang a song, second and third book had songs in them also. I think you are just prejudice against the writers that integrate songs into their writing, calling them lazy and unoriginal. I think that’s horrible; you’re telling someone they can’t write a story about a song that means something to them and now, you’re saying that they need to be moved to YouTube?
        Who are you to tell the writers of fanfiction and fictionpress that we cannot write a story about a song or multiple songs that we enjoy? I think you may want to take back some of the things you have said because they are quite hurtful and mostly untrue.
        Though, there are those writers that have a song that takes up the whole entire story but, I think I’m just gonna stick to what I had said earlier. Please, if you have a problem with a writer writing about what they feel, take it elsewhere or don’t say anything at all. Or, if you don’t want to, take it up with J.K. Rowling, Gaston Leroux, and Suzanne Collins, to name a few.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/19/2012 at 3:44 am

        No I won’t take back what I said. JK made her own lyrics up. Musicals either have permission or write their own lyrics. I wasn’t clear with what I said, but, people who only post the lyrics with some narrative at the end by their characters deserve to have their story deleted. However if quoting a song (Like the happy birthday song) or only using a line should be okay – (And not really a songfic)

        In my opinion people who just post the lyrics to the site with a short paragraph of dialogue are lazy and should not be called authors.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 12:01 am

        @ Laania ~ First, Rowling, Leroux and Collins all wrote their own music. Second, Phantom of the Opera’s composition is comprised of less then a hundredth with it comes to the songs. Third, those stories you’re saying are one-hundred percent comprised of song actually aren’t, unless we’re talking a musical that happens to be one-hundred percent singing. Before the advent of the novel all stories were written completely in poetic prose. On top of this, while all songs are poetic prose, not all poetic prose are songs. Such is the case of these older works.

        Cherry is actually correct in saying that the songfic concept isn’t found in published works aside from musicals. Even then musicals use the writers own work or songs known to be in the public domain, and the format is different from the songfic concept we are used to. The well written songfics can stand on their own without the lyrics. The poorly written ones are using someone else’s work to bolster their own. Others… the song has nothing to do with what is going on in the story. On top of this, most of the writers don’t bother to try and find lyrics that are within the public domain. So, for the most part songfic writing does amount to lazy writing.

        And by the way, any songfic that uses song lyrics not in public domain is a breach of copyright law and constitutes copyright infringement.

      • Blue-Inked Frost

        08/19/2012 at 12:35 am

        And by the way, any songfic that uses song lyrics not in public domain is a breach of copyright law and constitutes copyright infringement.

        Not true. If we’re talking copyright infringement, then some forms of quoting song lyrics are fair use. FF.Net site rules seem to be more restrictive than fair use principles, so I’d advise people concerned there to obey the site rules, but this statement is simply inaccurate. Quoting song lyrics in fanfic is:
        – Noncommercial use
        – Transformative, adding extra story or commentary around the lyrics
        – Limited since the lyrics are not the whole song, especially if only a short couplet of the lyrics are used
        – Not a substitute for the original song and does not harm the market
        These factors favour fair use.

        I think songfics tend to be bad and uncreative when they use the lyrics to the whole song and when the author bothers to write very little between the lines. But if the story is about contemporary characters who live in contemporary times and they briefly quote or refer to songs that exist in our contemporary times, then that may be in character and used to establish the setting. It’s a shame that the fear of an overly aggressive corporation bringing a lawsuit can have a chilling effect on quoting small portions of a work.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/19/2012 at 1:16 am

        Blue-Inked Frost, I think you would enjoy reading Free Culture. It is all about copyright law. I actually did a paper on fair use and know full well how crazy some of those IP people can get.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 1:43 am

        @Blue-Inked Forest – Depends on which definition of songfic a person uses. For example, if the definition one uses is any fanfic that quotes lyrics from songs then some do fall under fair use. However, if your using the definition where one uses the entire song and not including the ones that simply quote a few lines then songfic doesn’t fall under fair use because of the amount used.

        @ Guest – I typically see the term songfic being used for fanfics that quote the entire song, so that is the term I typically use. I tend to forget that not everybody sticks to this definition though. There is supposed to be narrative between the lines, good healthy chunks, but I’ve found some songfics of the kind I am referring to which are ninety percent the song.

        What you’re talking about does fall under fair use. Just because it is fair use doesn’t mean the person won’t try to go after you though. I’ve met online a photographer who insisted any use of his pictures without his permission infringed upon his copyright and he turned into a bully about getting people to remove his pictures. I tried telling him that doing a news article about his art work would fall under fair use and he didn’t believe me. He said he got the pictures removed and nobody dared put them up again. He’s obviously not had someone who complied to the take down order by filing a counter to his claim pointing out it was in fair use.

      • Blue-Inked Frost

        08/19/2012 at 2:04 am


        Heh, pretty sure I have back in the day – I like Lawrence Lessig’s and Rebecca Tushnet’s work. 🙂 I love reading and writing, and so I have various sentiments about IP law.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 1:36 am

        @Laania: That song in the Philosopher’s Stone is stupid and after hundreds, maybe thousands of HP stories I’ve looked at I’ve never seen ANYONE use it lol! And that doesn’t count I don’t think as its rubbish and means nothing but JKR shouldn’t ever try song writing.

    • Guest

      08/19/2012 at 1:09 am

      At the risk of sounding stupid, what exactly is a song-fic? Isn’t that when the entire story is made up of a song? There’s no narrative? Those are the works against the TOS, right?

      From the comments here, it seems everyone has a different definition.

      If an author is inspired by a song or uses a snippet of lyrics for a chapter title, that’s fine, correct? If a story has characters involved in the music industry and a small portion of the story is a group singing (and the author writes original lyrics) that seems reasonable to me. I certainly wouldn’t define that as a song-fic.

      Just curious. Thanks.

      • Blue-Inked Frost

        08/19/2012 at 2:24 am

        Fanlore has a definition: fanlore. org / wiki / Songfic. The badfic version of songfics are the entire lyrics copied into a story with very little extra content added around them, but sometimes authors might also briefly quote a small part of the lyrics of a song in a longer story, or have the characters discuss a particular song.

        Usually songfics are meant as using a popular song, not a song or poem that the author has written themselves.

        The OTW defends using not just the lyrics but the full audio version of songs in noncommercial fanworks, with some information here: transformativeworks. org / projects / multimedia. They link to a site that discusses the merits of that regarding fair use. (For example, taking short clips from a TV series and setting them to the music of a favourite song.)

      • Guest

        08/19/2012 at 4:12 am

        @yemi hikari & Blue-Inked Frost:

        Thanks for the clarifications. I don’t use any lyrics in my work and rarely stumble across them in my fandoms, but see them mentioned a lot on this blog and in forums. I do see many authors using snippets as titles or mentioning in an author’s note that the story was inspired by a song, but there is no actual ‘music’ in the story content.

  7. darkest

    08/18/2012 at 2:20 pm

    to be completely of topic: wouldn’t it be nice if the mobile site would have the white/black colour button (to change the page colour) on top of the page instead of on the bottom? cuz I kinda hate it to scroll all the way down to change the page colour and then up again to start the actual reading. (this probably doesn’t belong here, but I have no clue where to leave suggestions for the site)

    • S.

      08/19/2012 at 10:31 am

      There should be arrows at the top and bottom of the page that you can use to be taken directly to either the start or end of said page. They’re big and blue… 🙂

    • Myrddin

      08/22/2012 at 1:39 am

      I think it does if you use a none android standard browser… well it does on the Chrome on tablet. Don’t have a clue about Apple though.

  8. Stan Wilson

    08/18/2012 at 4:17 pm

    I would have missed many enjoyable stories if I cared overly much about grammar and spelling. I just edit in my head as I go. Sometimes, just for fun I create edited versions for my collection. Once I emailed one to a favorite author of mine, but it was not well received.

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 4:27 pm

      And yet their are authors like myself who struggle with their grammar who would take it as a compliment that one of their fans took the time to correct their grammar so that they could make the work better.

    • Myrddin

      08/22/2012 at 1:42 am

      My brain just seems to put things together without much thought, except when someone has agreed to a greenline WORD change without reading it and then it screws up the sentence lol!

      I would have been happy to reload the chapters if someone spent the time.

  9. Amy

    08/18/2012 at 6:34 pm

    Sort forums based on latest posts, not based on popularity. It’s impossible to find active forums otherwise!

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 4:27 pm

      I agree with this. Some of these more popular fandoms are dead in the water.

  10. lord_spyridon

    08/18/2012 at 7:56 pm

    On the issue regarding the songfics, you must have very bad luck. The song fics I usually stumbled on are at the least decent and most have chapters based on one stanza from the song. Another so-called songfic actually had a karoake battle. That plot was original in that fandom. That author actually listed the song titles, writers, artists, and production company in her final chapter at the end. Another long fic had a song featured in one of the chapters where they were on a date. Under that generalization in the TOS, all those would have been considered songfics. When I alerted her of purge going on, she edited it so now you can only read the unedited version on her personal site. There was a songfic on the site that I stumbled on yesterday while googling and can say that person didn’t write a scene that was longer than the song itself. So I just skipped over it and moved on to the next one.

    It would be quite unfair to paint all songfics with the same brush.

    I’ve talked with other authors who don’t really understand why songfics are banned in general since most of the lyrics are on the public domain on sites such as azlyrics, metrolyrics, etc. I mean, if production companies would come after those sites who use theirl lyrics for song fics, I’m sure the other fanfiction archives would get sued over silly. There are a vast amount of songfics on their sites. I had to agree what one said about having copywrited material since everything on is copyrighted. We just can’t touch those fandoms if the author has expressively mentioned they don’t want fanfiction about their work like Anne Rice and others.

    As for moderation, usually on specialized archives like the Area 52: HKH standard for the Stargate fandom and SIYE and harrypotterfanfiction for Harry Potter take a long time to actually get stories published and that’s on a way smaller scale than So I would have to pass on that suggestion.

    • Blue-Inked Frost

      08/19/2012 at 12:21 am

      I’ve talked with other authors who don’t really understand why songfics are banned in general since most of the lyrics are on the public domain on sites such as azlyrics, metrolyrics, etc.

      Just as a heads-up, that’s not what ‘public domain’ means. These song lyrics are publicly available, just as you can probably find illicit PDF copies of Harry Potter floating around on the internet, but they are still under copyright if they were written and published recently.

      I mean, if production companies would come after those sites who use theirl lyrics for song fics, I’m sure the other fanfiction archives would get sued over silly.

      Music corporations can be somewhat overvigilant, for example the Lenz v. Universal case where a mother got in trouble for posting her toddler dancing while a Prince song played in the background. For this reason FF.Net might have chosen to frame a very broad rule against use of song lyrics rather than shaping the rule according to fair use considerations.

      • Dawn Tindall

        08/24/2012 at 2:05 am

        I had not heard about this, so I looked it up. It turns out, The mother WON that suit. The court ruled that the Universal send an order for the clip to be removed without considering fair use. This case was about the mother fighting back for her right to fair use. The clip has been reposted.

        I agree BIF that being able to find the lyrics on the internet does not constitute public domain, but I do think we worry about copyright law and fair use. I think we worry too much. I consider song-fic and fan fiction in general to be fair use, as I understand it. I’m not an attorney, I’ve just read up on it. But, I would also consider both unsettled law. In other words, there simply haven’t been enough challenges regarding ff and fair use to say exactly where the bright-line rules will end up.

        Has anyone ever hear a lawyer talk about this? Most of the articles I’ve seen aren’t by lawyers and they are more like editorials that start out pro or anti fan fiction.

        I don’t know when or where it will happen, but there will be lawsuits to answer these questions. That is simply how the US legal system works. I understand why doesn’t want to be the subject of lawsuits as they are pricey. But keep in mind that being sued doesn’t mean you broke the law. It means someone else thinks your did OR someone wants you to back down and thinks filing a suit will get you to do so.

        I know I’m getting preachy, but if there were a complaint, a well organized ff community might be able to get the meanie to back off:

        Again, I’m not advocating that we try to push boundaries. We just need to stand up for ourselves.

      • Miss Priss

        08/24/2012 at 5:05 am

        No, we don’t. The issue here isn’t whhether or not copyright law allows it. The issue is whether or no THIS site allows it. And the answer is a simple yet resounding NO.

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 1:23 am

      Public domain doesn’t mean you can find it on the web, it means that the work has fallen out of copyright. The use of lyrics by the site azlyrics and metrolyrics falls under fair use because they serve the purpose of an archive. I’ll note here, even the professional publishing industry balks at using one or two lines from songs and poetry that aren’t in public domain even when it falls under fair use.

      • lord_spyridon

        08/19/2012 at 2:03 am

        Don’t know what my brain was thinking. Example of fingers typing other words than what you mean. Thanks for the catch.

  11. IGDLTV

    08/19/2012 at 12:23 am

    Error in community section with the >1000 words filter isn’t working. When I use that option, it’s doesn’t appear any fanfic, it’s only that filter, with the other words filter there is no problem.

    Can you please fix that soon?. It’s really annoying.

  12. Sam Dutch

    08/19/2012 at 3:18 am

    You know what would help? A haitus or discontinued category for fics that are on hold or never going to be updated. That way reader’s know if they read one on haitus then that means it’s gonna be awhile and the ones in the discontinued section will allow reader’s to know that what they’re reading most-likely will never be continued. That doesn’t mean they can’t update their fics, it just allows reader’s to know that it won’t be updated in awhile or ever.


    • Blue-Inked Frost

      08/19/2012 at 3:39 am

      I don’t think it would add much to the site, after all, authors already choose complete or incomplete as it is. If it’s incomplete and hasn’t been updated in a long time, then you can judge that it’s probably not going to be finished. Having hiatus or discontinued categories wouldn’t help many people, with authors who might be reluctant to select them or who might select an incorrect category anyway.

      • Moi

        08/19/2012 at 4:40 am

        But the problem is that some authors will use the ‘complete’ tag when they have actually abandoned the fic and it is not complete at all! The addition of a ‘discontinued’ or ‘hiatus’ tag would help with that. OK, it probably wouldn’t help with authors that have already marked their incomplete stories as complete and then gone away, but it would help in the future.

    • Guest

      08/19/2012 at 4:34 am

      Many authors don’t plan to go on extended hiatus or abandon a story (or at least I hope not!). When I find an older work that hasn’t been updated, and check the author’s profile, usually all activity stopped about the same time. They ceased publishing work and favoriting stories. In these cases, I doubt they would come back and mark a story on hiatus, so I’m not certain such a feature would be very helpful.

      • MissPriss

        08/19/2012 at 9:08 am

        The thing that cracks me up about the songfic/lyrics arguments is that it technically isn’t about copyright.. It’s about the site saying “Don’t do it”. I get so annoyed at the writers who reply to my reviews with lists of exceptions under copyright law. I don’t care. It’s not allowed HERE.

        It’s like the script authors who argue that their script/Facebook/chatroom stories are a legitimate form or literature because Shakespeare wrote plays: Don’t care. The rules of THIS site say “No”.

        I also want to comment on the person who said he/she sent off lists of rule-breaking stories to support via email. I recently did the same with a list of almost 50 of those God-awful “Select Your Own Tribute (SYoT)” things in the Hunger Games category, and every single one was removed within a week. So I just sent off a list of 50 more, along with a list of 30-odd Facebook format stories.

        I used to feel sorry for writers who broke those rules and I really tried to warn them/help them. But I got fed up with the defensiveness and hostility. Now I just report ’em.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 4:32 pm

        @ MissPriss – Having long lists I think makes the site admins work easier. So if someone were to go through a good portion of the Glee, High School Musical or other such fandoms and make a list of ALL the rule breaking fanfics or even just the most recent. Or making long lists of all the RPF fanfics for the site admins.

      • Shawnesty

        08/19/2012 at 6:08 pm

        I’ve had to put some of my stuff on hiatus while I deal with some health issues and what I do is just note in the summary that “X” story is on hiatus until further notice, and I’ve put a note in my profile to let readers know that due to health problems and inactive muse issues, the open stuff is on hiatus until I get back to it. That’s a pretty simple solution and lets readers know right off if a story is not going to be updated soon.

    • KageNoNeko

      08/19/2012 at 1:47 pm

      That would be an awesome idea because that way we know if the author has discontinued work on a fic.

    • Unyielding Wish

      08/19/2012 at 5:02 pm

      I don’t know if I actually got what you meant, but the way I took it was that all the hiatus/discontinued fics would be in one whole category, separate from the main category. Then probably nobody would read it, yes? Sometimes all a writer needs is inspiration from a fellow reviewer. And who would visit the hiatus/discontinued section, if it was there, anyway?

      Or do you mean something like the genre category? …I’m sorry, that must sound totally confusing…

      Thing is, though, I still like it if the authors say it in a note at the beginning of a chapter, in the summary, or simply on their profile. That way people know, straight away, instead of having to check everywhere for the story they like.

    • SladinForever

      08/21/2012 at 1:49 am

      I suggested long ago that they should add a “on hiatus” option with the incomplete/complete bubbles, since I have had to put fics on hiatus due to family stuff or working on new stories, but never got a response. But yes, I want this added as well. Otherwise I have to put ON HIATUS! on the story summary

  13. Demon Pants

    08/19/2012 at 7:54 am

    As for moderation on a fic if it has bad grammar and spelling, I really don’t agree on it. One of the things I look forward to when I finish a chapter is seeing my hit count going up, seeing that people are reading it, and I would honestly be annoyed if it was moderated, even if I checked it thoroughly for errors. Unfortunately, I know we try to make this site have a lot of quality fanfiction, but I think it just does more harm to do things like the Critics United and being so strict about spelling and grammar that you have to moderate a chapter or fic before it goes up. Just the great thing about fanfiction is that ANYONE can write it, but that’s its downfall to it, and no matter how hard you try to get rid of the bad fanfiction, they will always be there, because fanfiction gives freedom to any author to try to write one, even if the author barely has any experience writing a story at all, and just being so Nazistic over spelling and grammar is unfair to those who are actually careful over their fics’ errors and honestly, if a fic has extremely bad spelling and grammar and the person isn’t new to the English language, you really aren’t missing out much if you just click the Back button and look at another fic instead, possibly one that is better written. One thing I like to do with choosing which fics I want to read is just to quickly scan the summary. If the author simply doesn’t use their spellcheck or have a basic concept of grammar, just ignore it and go down the list. Or I see the magic words, “I don’t know how to write summaries” or “Summary sux the story is much better I promise!!!!”

    And for those who simply ignore you when you point out their grammar and spelling errors…I’m sorry, but while if you want to you could possibly report their fic for maybe breaking a few rules if they have done so, but otherwise they’re honestly not worth your time and they’re choosing the decision to continue to wallow in mediocrity, and I just don’t bother with them and just let them have their fun, but eventually they’re going to realize their errors, and if you can’t tell them the truth, they will continue to be blind and not see the true way of writing a story until it’s too late, and that’s not anyone’s fault but theirs.

    As for songfics, I honestly write a couple of song lyrics in my fics, as music was always a big part in my writing career, and I do feel offended that I’m lumped in the same category as those who…you know, just insert their song lyrics and barely write anything between them or after them. It is frustrating, but there are actually a lot of examples of authors who use song lyrics in their novels and stories, such as Stephen King and Rushdie, and I say they’re not hacks, but they’re trying to put a setting and a tone for their story by the lyrics implied in the song and possibly if the reader has heard of it, they can imagine the song in their head as the scene is running. I view writing at times like directing a movie, and sometimes authors want to use a song to set the tone, and I honestly don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. What’s wrong is when authors simply are lazy and don’t use any other action or tone or description to set the scene, and just simply want to use the song to add their wordcount.

    I don’t know much about copyright, but fanfiction is writing about copyrighted material (unless the author has firmly stated he/she doesn’t want fanfiction written about their characters/universe) and I honestly believe as long as you give credit to the singer/band/songwriters, then unless the music company is very strict about its policies, you should be fine. Song lyrics, if used right, can be a powerful tool to convey a message in your writing, and I believe that unless it truly isn’t fair use, it shouldn’t be counted against writers who honestly work very hard on their stories and feel a song could be used to set a scene and form a mood in the reader’s mind.

    Sorry this was long, but I felt like giving my two cents even if all I do is mainly write on this site and barely read most fics.

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 4:37 pm

      Any fanfic that uses more then four lines definitely doesn’t fall under fair use.

      • Blue-Inked Frost

        08/19/2012 at 6:23 pm

        Actually, it’s not the amount alone that determines fair use. Do you have a cite for this arbitrary limit of four lines? Of course, there is always a huge difference between what one site’s policies can be, what the music company will be likely to ask to take down, and what actually is fair use.

        If you look up the fair use factors on Wikipedia, you’ll see that amount and substantiality of the portion taken are only one out of the four factors.

      • MissPriss

        08/19/2012 at 6:40 pm

        Whether it’s 4 lines or 400 doesn’t matter. The people who created, maintain and pay for this site say “none”. Zip. Nada. Nichts.

        So it would be sad to see all songfics unceremoniously wiped from the site. Wouldn’t it be even sadder to have the entire site gone because some musician wants to sue over the rights to his song?

        I agree that it probably WON’T happen. But the rule is in place because it COULD happen.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/19/2012 at 10:15 pm

        Fair use is an affirmative defense, meaning the burden is on you to prove that it is fair use. I think this is why some of these sites don’t allow fair use all that much.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 7:42 pm

        @ Blue-Inked Frost – Actually, I’m looking through the stuff and most of what I’m actually finding through my seach says the number of lines you can quote is zero. In other words, no amount of song lyrics quoted falls under fair use if the song lyrics are not in public domain.

      • Dawn Tindall

        08/24/2012 at 2:11 am

        OK, I looked this up at the US Copyrights website:

        Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.

        The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
        The nature of the copyrighted work
        The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
        The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work
        The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

        There is no number of limits rule. So, any lawyers out there? I would say song and ffs would fall under criticism or comment.

      • yemi hikari

        08/24/2012 at 2:45 am

        @ Dawn – To quote this page…

        Whether a court will view this as the case for a particular work of fan fiction depends on how much of the story relies on copyrighted materials, whether the story is sold, or affects the market for the copyrighted work, and other factors. There is no easy answer to the question, which is why it is often a good idea to consult a lawyer who can assess the particular facts of your case.

        Like any other copyright case it would be I guess handled on a case by case situation.

      • konarciq

        08/24/2012 at 5:02 am

        And considering that much fanfiction is keeping old TV shows etcetera alive (and thus keeping up the interest in buying dvd’s), I’d say fanfiction is actually beneficial to the copyright holders! 😀

      • KageNoNeko

        08/24/2012 at 1:49 pm

        @konarciq, doujin are allowed in Japan for that reason, according to a passage from Free Culture.

    • Unyielding Wish

      08/19/2012 at 5:11 pm

      Well, there are much more stories with incorrect stuff in them than stories that are immaculate. You can see that that problem happens especially in the anime section.

      As for the “summary” thing, well, sometimes I can’t help being curious. Sometimes the story itself really is better than the summary. In that case, some tips could be dropped on how to make the summary interesting. I know because I’ve been like that before, and after seeing more and more examples of good summaries, I decided to try it out again myself.

      Your complaints about the errors mirror mine, so that’s why I decided to become a betareader. What makes me laugh is that some people become betareaders even when their own stories are terribly written. They want the title, maybe?

      With the song lyrics — yes. I have a friend whose stories, most of them, are written based off of or inspired by a song. I agree that if you were to just erase all of the songfics off the site, a lot of people would be left with nothing. They’re the basis for many people. However, it doesn’t take that long to go back, select “doc manager”, give credit, and update the story with credits, though it is quite boring.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 7:25 pm

        Actually, crediting the original creator only works if your use falls under fair use. Any person whose quoted an entire song will lose their stories even if they credit the original writer. That also said, while most people won’t report someone they know is falling under fair use, other people will. Because the rule about not copying doesn’t say anything about “except for fair use”.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 7:43 pm

        And I’m going to add… I googled what constitutes fair use for song lyrics. Most of the sites I’ve come across say you can’t quote anything. One line is enough for a lawsuit.

      • Blue-Inked Frost

        08/19/2012 at 8:22 pm

        Have a look at Stanford’s list of cases: . As you can see, some uses of songs of above four lines in text have been deemed fair use. Just because some music companies can be overvigilant (eg. “it’s wrong to film your toddler dancing while a Prince song plays in the background”) does not change the law. However, people should keep in mind that general fair use law and particular site policies may be at odds.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 8:28 pm

        I know that is the law. Most people, including ffnet likely don’t have the money to stand up to them about this so it is better to be safe rather then sorry about this.

      • Blue-Inked Frost

        08/19/2012 at 9:18 pm

        I’m glad you know the law, and the distinction between FF.Net policies and the law. Some of your language seems to misrepresent these issues, though. 🙂

      • yemi hikari

        08/20/2012 at 12:08 am

        Apologies for that.

      • Unyielding Wish

        08/22/2012 at 10:14 pm

        …I am such a hypocrite…

        Actually, I don’t know whether “hypocrite” is the right word, but at the request of so many people here I have removed my songfics.

        (I didn’t plan on coming back to comment, but whatever.)

        So that’s three songfics down on this site. 😉

  14. brendan2k5

    08/19/2012 at 1:34 pm

    I’m glad to see more and more people are using WordPress to voice their opinions on all things Before I join this discussion I want to shamelessly plug my blog on Fan Fiction, which is an offshot of my account: I post helpful blogs in addition to info pertaining to my work on It’s worth a read no matter what your level of skill is.

    Getting to the current topics, I agree with those who’ve said more time needs to be spent moderating BOTH sites’ archives for blantant violators. I had no idea there were communities on both sites dedicated to fighting these violators and I tip my hat to them. I have been using for 10 years–mind you this was when both sites were one. One thing that was a constant over the last decade is the LACK of oversight. I’ve had to see quite a few authors take their work elsewhere due to plagiarism concerns.

    People would be far less inclined to openly break the rules if they knew a moderator or site admin was around with a virtual blackjack to put them in their place. I agree with Cherry in the idea of a filter but I think human oversight is what the site needs more.

    At the very least there should be a TEAM of moderators for the really big/popular categories on both sites. They’d be able to respond to reported stories quickly and efficiently. Unlike an automated system the human factor is more…humane. If you can’t pay people fine, I know there’s gotta be a few hundred authors on both sites who would be more than happy to do it for free. I’ll save what I think the preconditions to become a “Librarian” should be for another post but at the very least they’ll be trustworthy people with alot of experience in writing and/or reviewing.

    Authors/Members who are Librarians would have their username a different color to tell them apart from the rest as well as the logo next to it. Registered members can report stories or abusive reviews to them, who will investigate and deal with it accordingly. They would also deal with stories and reviews flagged for moderation. Naturally, said Librarians would also have the ability to remove stories and reviews from the archives–en masse if necessary. Only Admins would have the ability to suspend/close author accounts.

    Reviews…God would I KILL for reviews myself (lol). Anyway, I think the whole problem with reviews is the human factor. Some people can handle critique and some people can’t. Being able to review an author is something I’m thinking of but I can see how that can be abused. I think some people have a superiority complex.

    Reviewers DEFENDING Plagiarists? -100% Credability. Anyone caught plagiarizing be it Original Work OR Fan Fiction (Fan Fiction CAN be published as a Stand Alone Complex) should be forever shamed with a mark or message on their profile that they can’t remove themselves. The violator would also have to have their uploads reviewed before it’s made public. If they keep doing it while under watch they lose the ability to publish period. Being under watch once will be enough for most people, problem solved.

    In regards to Songfics: I personally HATE them and they ARE against the rules regardless of context. I don’t have a problem with people who use Lyrics but that (The Lyrics) shouldn’t make up 95% of the story. For example you’re kinda forced to use lyrics if your Fanfic is based on a musical like Elite Beat Agents or High School Musical. doesn’t make money from the fanfics as far as I know so the RIAA has no business watching people here xD

    Contest/Ask a Character/Create An OC rubbish is why I advocated for a blog attachment to profiles last month. I hate people who do those as much as I hate people who post chapters as separate stories and people who write cheesy Play Format Intros/Outros in EVERY Chapter. It’s unoriginal to me because of how many I’ve seen over the last 10 years.

    I want to challenge the powers that be to tackle ALL of the concerns raised by myself and those who posted before me Head-On. Otherwise you’ll continue to have good/serious authors leave for other sites. The majority don’t announce their departure so we’ll never know on average how many people leave >.>;

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 4:40 pm

      The problem is certain people who gain power would then abuse said power.

      • brendan2k5

        08/19/2012 at 7:19 pm

        You obviously stopped reading past “I know there’s gotta be a few hundred authors on both sites who would be more than happy to do it for free.” and skipped the sentence that followed:

        “I’ll save what I think the preconditions to become a “Librarian” should be for another post but at the very least they’ll be trustworthy people with alot of experience in writing and/or reviewing.”

        Obviously there will be a screening process to minimize abuse. Said people who abuse their given power will have said power taken away, account suspended.

        Now here are a few of the preconditions for someone to become a Librarian/Mod or Head Librarian/Global Mod. Since I’m giving names to titles Admin = Loremaster. Now here would be the guidelines to become a Librarian:

        1. Must be able to demonstrate familiarity with the category(ies) they will be overseeing. A story or essay (existing or submitted to Admins) may be sufficient.
        2. Must be in good standing with (no recent guideline violations)
        3. Must be proficient in Word Processing (MS Word, LibreOffice, etc.)
        4. Must be willing to do the work fairly and carefully (they will be held accountable for abuse)
        5. Must be very familiar with navigating OR must have been a member of 12 months prior to be eligable.

        Anything else I’ll leave you guys to fill in. Head Libarians would oversee Librarians and would be able to edit certain things in posted stories. Among them being The Rating, Category and Summary. They will also be able to temporarily revoke a member’s reviewing or publishing abilities if need be including Moderators/Librarians. See my above post to see what Mods could do.

        The Admins would have the final say on all levels when it comes to who can and can’t be a Mod/GMod. I say we try it and see. At the very least it’ll raise both sites’ rep knowing there’s a visible team doing housecleaning =D

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 7:46 pm

        I feel my point still stands though. How are these people going to be held accountable for deleting non-rule breaking fanfics when the site admins struggle enough with trying to regulate the reports they are already going through.

    • Guest

      08/19/2012 at 11:47 pm


      Regarding moderators, I understand what you’re getting at. Implementing a system of checks and balances to prevent abuse. But I still don’t like the idea of moderators.

      I’ve been a participant on message boards that have moderators. Over time, people fade in and out of fandoms, and the original owner might pass the reins on. Eventually, most of these boards become very inhospitable. Instead of open discussion and the sharing of opinions, it becomes a place of “my way or the highway.”

      I fear that would happen if moderators are put into place on FFN, particularly if they are writers in that fandom. What happens if Moderator A says ‘this is okay” and Moderator B says “nope”? I much prefer the open system we have now, even with its weaknesses.

      FFN has been implementing a lot of changes recently. Some I like; some I dislike. I didn’t like the story covers and public display of favorites/follows, but I got used to it. Moderators would probably be the one change where I would definitely leave. I’m too old and grouchy to put up with cliques. 🙂

    • konarciq

      08/20/2012 at 10:23 am

      I can understand why you’d like this, and even see its advantages. But I still say, “Please, no…!” It would all too easily slide down in having the fandoms policed by a clique. Power is addictive, and few people can handle it properly without taking advantage of their position at the cost of their ‘subordinates’. Please, keep the site free!

      No. Peer feedback and reporting abuse (expecting admin to deal with it indeed) is good enough.

      • MissPriss

        08/20/2012 at 11:10 am

        I absolutely agree! There are alreay a few fandoms that have cliques who THINK they’re in charge, telling new writers they must get approval before posting in that fandom.

        I think the current system works to a certain extent; it needs to be made clear to writers, however, that the rules DO matter, and that negative reviews are NOT bullying, and that rule-breaking stories WILL be deleted.

        Maybe there could be some sort of position to oversee the critic/report forums — to prevent abuse by the forums, of course, but also to field all of the complaints about the forums.

      • konarciq

        08/20/2012 at 12:42 pm

        I agree that it needs to be clearer that the rules *are* being enforced. I have no idea how many people are working at ffnet admin (and probably voluntary?), but perhaps they could use some help from experienced users in dealing with the abuse reports sent in by others, checking out if the complaint is justified, contact the author with a warning, and if necessary take action. And of course report back to the bellringer about the status. Just to keep up with the inflow, showing that these reports are indeed taken seriously, and acted upon within a reasonable timeframe, and so giving a clear sign that the rules *are* being enforced.

        But I do think that -before anything drastic is undertaken – the rules need to be clearer. Just browse through this page and marvel at the confusion as to what exactly is a songfic… Or earlier discussions over what each rating should imply. If the rules aren’t clear to the users, it’s mighty difficult to enforce them.

        On a totally different note: Xing, it seems that despite the faster upload, some things aren’t working properly. The quote function in the forums is missing (clicking on *styles* only gives you the option to highlight), and the majority of the covers and avatars isn’t loading at all. (That is a way to get a better loading speed indeed LOL)

      • KageNoNeko

        08/20/2012 at 2:50 pm

        @konarciq, I agree with you about the guidelines not being all that clear, particularly where the guidelines say stuff about there being no real people allowed in stories.

      • yemi hikari

        08/20/2012 at 2:29 pm

        @ MissPriss – I’ve not dealt with the exact situation you’re talking about with the cliques, but I’ve seen how bad they can be. Some are formed around fandoms and some are formed around pairings. If a member of the clique is given power they’ll delete any fanfic the clique doesn’t like or want, and if a member outside of the clique were given power… well, I’ve seen how these cliques think they are above the rules of grammar and the site rules some of them. It’s not pretty.

      • KH

        08/20/2012 at 3:53 pm

        Yeah, I think having moderators to approve stories is definitely not the way to go. Too much potential for abuse there and I agree that many fandoms have cliques that would rule a realm. Plus every individual has their own idea of what is and isn’t acceptable and so it would be hard to keep prejudices free from such a task.

      • yemi hikari

        08/21/2012 at 2:04 pm

        @ konarciq – What may help the site admins out is to go looking for stories that other site members have given warning too, but the writers haven’t complied. The person creates a list of the rule breaking fanfics and sends it in to the site admins via e-mail. That seems to get the quickest response. Simply creating a big long list has been noted to make their job a lot easier.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/21/2012 at 6:06 pm

        That’s what I’ve been doing creating huge long lists of stories that are in violation of the guidelines. I have gotten a pretty good response from support about those fics.

  15. Jayla

    08/19/2012 at 3:53 pm

    First off, I’m just going to be happy for the original post. I’m glad to see you guys working towards making the website every day!
    Now to jump into the other 60 comments.
    I’m sick of this debate!!! The “Critics United” has seriously made too many authors to count quit! That is not right whatsoever, and I’m not going to stand for it. Yet they still get away with it.
    Every single author on FF wants to be creative, and build a network of friends. I don’t think any author is seriously out just to break the rules.Songfics can be real stories too! And sometimes, people are just going to act how they want to act. Maybe there’s nothing you can do. Just saying.

    • Miss Priss

      08/24/2012 at 5:16 am

      Unless you take the time to research the situation, you are making statements against something based on hearsay and rumors, and are part of the problem, not the solution.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/24/2012 at 1:55 pm

        @Miss Priss, I really don’t like your attitude at the moment. Rumors CAN make a person doubt whether or not it is worth posting stuff on this website. When I saw rumors about another purge on the site, I was concerned even though they were rumors.

  16. yemi hikari

    08/19/2012 at 4:49 pm

    I’m going to suggest this again. When we choose fandoms, we go and choose “book” and then whatever book fandom. The report abuse system could have “not the property of the uploading writer” and it could be divided up into “song lyrics”, “written published works”, “live action works” and “other fanworks”. Then, when the abuse report goes through, the site admins could have it tag the story as [abuse] [copyright issues] [song lyrics] [story id number]. This way too, the site admins can look for all other reports for these stories and once deletion is settled upon they can find all the other reports for a story and delete them, not to mention note any other abuse issues the fanfic might have had. It would make their jobs easier I think.

  17. Kassie

    08/19/2012 at 5:03 pm

    I personally don’t think Vocaloid fanfics should be deleted. It’s a singing program and songs are used for the inspiration. It doesn’t make much sense to allow Vocaloid fanfics to be written yet the songs they sing can’t be.

    • Unyielding Wish

      08/19/2012 at 5:12 pm

      Agreed. That was what I was saying. They could just go back and give credit; not much to that, yes?

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 7:07 pm

      I don’t agree. If the person did not write the song they do not have the rights to use it. Plus, you don’t actually need to use songs simply because the fandom is musically based.

      • izraill

        08/19/2012 at 7:50 pm

        Dude, we’re not making money with the songs and most of us write disclaimers, so we aren’t doing anything bad.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 8:00 pm

        Yes you are. You are infringing on the copyright of the original writer of the song. I’ll quote the following page for the rights a person has when they own the copyright.

        the right to reproduce the copyrighted work;
        the right to prepare derivative works based upon the work;
        the right to distribute copies of the work to the public;
        the right to perform the copyrighted work publicly; and
        the right to display the copyrighted work publicly.

        Now, there is a concept called fair use, but the use of song lyrics without permission does not ever fall under fair use even when the use is non-profit. By using copyrighted lyrics, you run the risk of getting the site into legal troubles. Would you really want the site closed down?

      • izraill

        08/19/2012 at 8:04 pm

        1. I don’t give a F**k about copyright.
        2. I always change the lyrics a bit.
        3. What are you gonna do to stop me if I use song lyrics?
        4. If the site doesn’t want legal troubles thay should go and delete the fanfics, not tell us to not write them.

      • MissPriss

        08/19/2012 at 8:32 pm

        Step back a take a deep breath, Big Guy. We’re all having a reasonable discussion here, and you’re the only one cursing and getting angry.

        Why on Earth would anone honestly believe it’s easier for admins to remove your fic than for you to just follow rules in the first place?

        It’s people like you — not CU or LU or What-Have-You– that are the problem on this site. Not just because you don’t respect the rules, but because you resort to anger and cursing and and name-calling every time someone tried to have a reasonable discission and come to an agreement.

      • izraill

        08/19/2012 at 8:38 pm

        Sorry, I was acting a little irrational because I felt insulted with some comments here. I know that I wasn’t insulted, but that’s just how I felt. I’ll try to be more rational, but I still don’t agree with the copyright and won’t respect it.

      • Unyielding Wish

        08/19/2012 at 8:09 pm

        What is your point, exactly? Do you mean that any fanfiction containing song lyrics should be banished from FFn?

        Some stories are simply inspired from songs, and only use a line or two from the lyrics. Do you want those taken off too, or are you okay with those? I’m confused, and I don’t want a major fight to erupt here :\

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 8:14 pm

        1. Obviously…
        2. If you’re not writing a parody it still does not constitute fair use.
        3. I’ll give people a warning on their fanfics and if they don’t comply I’ll report it to the site admins until it is removed. If I’m blocked I’ll simply report.
        4. They do delete the fanfics when they are reported because they don’t have time to go looking for them as they are trying to run the site.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 8:16 pm

        @ Unyielding Wish – I would rather the people edit the lyrics out then lose their stories, but I would rather the stories disappear rather then ffnet getting shut down. Because then it won’t simply be a few stories that are gone but a whole lot more.

      • yemi hikari

        08/19/2012 at 8:48 pm

        … I’ll add that I’m not one to report a few lines because I believe that to be in fair use under the fair use laws, but that doesn’t change the fact the music industry is like a mad dog when it comes to songs.

      • Phalanx

        08/20/2012 at 1:13 am

        @izraill, let me put your argument in context. If you don’t respect copyright and won’t follow it, then I presume you would be ok if someone took your fanfics, cut and pasted the entire fanfic, added a few lines and changed a few words around, then presented it as their work?

        If they added a little disclaimer: “X story is copyright of izraill”, does it all make it magically ok?

      • MissPriss

        08/20/2012 at 11:20 am

        Unyielding Wish —

        Yes, I DO wish that every story containing copyrighted song lyrics could be banished from this site. They aren’t allowed here, and they open the site up for potential lawsuits.

        I also wish that every story featuring Real People would disappear, for the same reasons. I am so tired of seeing stories with One Direction, Josh Hutcherson, Justin Bieber and the actors from Big Time Rush!

  18. debra

    08/19/2012 at 6:01 pm

    Ooooo.. Just found what you did for pm’s. Niiiice. (ya ya, got a pm on my new account) happy dance..

  19. Lynn Hollanfer.

    08/19/2012 at 7:44 pm

    Fanfics have their own site. Fictionpress is for original work. I would like to see all the ‘insert your own OC in this work’ banned, since they are not completely original work. If a group wants to role play, aren’t there sections in the forums where that is accepted?

    As regards the poor presentation/grammar problems, any reader can point out to any author when her work is sub-standard. Moderators in that sense aren’t needed. Peer feedback will do.

    • yemi hikari

      08/19/2012 at 7:51 pm

      The rules for the two sites are the same. Insert your own OC is already banned under the “no interactive works allowed” rule.

      I also agree with you that the moderator idea is bad.

    • Jayla

      08/19/2012 at 8:00 pm

      And peer feedback is leading to a total uproar thanks to the CU…

  20. izraill

    08/19/2012 at 8:49 pm

    WTF?, One (actually 2, because I uploaded it in 2 languages) of my stories just got removed because: Main reason for removal: “Not the property of uploading writer Please note we
    do not allow users to post lyrics to songs they did not write. Exception being
    works in the US public domain.”

    Well,I wrote that and those weren’t the actual lyrics, the original lyrics were in Japanese and I translated them (with my own translation) to english and spanish, so thecnically those lyrics weren’t copyrighted.

    I am gonna post this comment in every update of this blog until I get a response, Iwouldn’t complain if the removal was fair, but it wasn’t. so I’m going to re-upload it because it doesn’t infringe copyright.

    • Blue-Inked Frost

      08/19/2012 at 9:21 pm

      The question isn’t whether it infringes copyright, unfortunately, it’s whether FF.Net considers it infringement of site policies.

      Personally I feel that overzealous reporters and self-appointed vigilantes of the site can seem poisonous and irritating, especially in cases where people try to gather a mob together to report a particular story or when it crosses the line of one person’s interpretation of the site rules as against the actual site rules. But if your story has been reported and the site moderators have made their decision there is little that can be done.

      • izraill

        08/19/2012 at 9:31 pm

        I think that story got removed because it was hated by almost everyone in the fandom. It’s a fandom where OCs aren’t welcome, and I wrote an OC story. I guess that made the haters gather and report. I think that because I’ve seen lots of stories that actually are against the rules, but people like them and they’re not reported. *sigh* I guess I’ll just reupload and hope the best.

      • MissPriss

        08/19/2012 at 9:36 pm

        Dude, it doesn’t matter how many people report it — it wouldn’t have been deleted by admins if it didn’t break rules. If you just re-upload it without changing the violation that got it deleted, it will just get deleted again.

        Human beings have the ability to learn from experience. You should try it someday.

      • izraill

        08/20/2012 at 3:01 pm

        Then explain the story “facebook time” in the adventure time section. It uploaded lots of chapters before it was removed. It broke the rules using chat format and no one cared because everyone loved the story. That was a long wait, but mine got deleted after only 3 chapters.

      • yemi hikari

        08/20/2012 at 7:29 pm

        @ israill – First, the site admins are going to deal with the infractions that could get them legally in trouble before the ones that don’t. Second, it depends on when the story got reported. If a story isn’t reported until it is dozens of chapters into the story, then of course it is going to be removed later then a story that only has three chapters and was reported at a sooner chapter point.

      • brendan2k5

        08/20/2012 at 10:42 pm

        And this is exactly why I’m calling for moderators to be added. Don’t want them to be regular members? Fine, bring in folks from else where to do it. I promise you though one of the first things to be dealt with should we get mods is these damned vigliante groups.

        These people are the second-biggest reason–and by small margin behind Plagiarists–authors pull their work from The fact that this issue has been left largely unaddressed is cause for concern. Something needs to be done or plagiarism will be the least of our concerns before too much longer. While I do feel strongly about this subject I do understand why everyone else is against it.

        Even so I still want to say the LONG-TERM benefit is worth the risk. Both sites are simply too big to maintain the current model. Most of you have pointed out its flaws, after all. That’s why I proposed Moderators. I think the majority of authors of both sites are mature enough to be able to adjust to that.

        If you’re against it no matter what it’s still better than the EXTREME fool-proof “solution”. That would be all submissions being reviewed before they are made public. Guideline violations are denied and repeat offenders get infracted, etc.

        I’m offering a lesser-extreme alternative because the way things are now, Admin Approval could be on the table in the near future.

        As an aside you can be damned sure the Admins are more concerned with keeping submissions that could get them sued off both sites FIRST, as they should be. I’ve seen what happened to other sites when they fail to respect an author’s wishes that they not allow people to publish Fan Fiction through them.

      • Guest

        08/20/2012 at 11:03 pm

        I am willing to bet, Bendan, that you have never dealt first-hand with one of those “vigilante groups”. Rather, you are one of the angry masses who have heard of them through a friend of a friend of a friend, etc. I want to see one first hand example of a member of these groups attacking a story for anything other than a rule violation, despite all of the stories circulating about groups who target based on simple dislike or a few spelling errors.G ive me proof, not heresay. ,There are some angry flamers who leave horrific reviews, but none of them are affiliated with CU, LU, or any of the others.

        How about giving us an option to report the sheep-like masses that storm those “vigilante” forums with cursing, name-calling, and threats every time someone dares to leave a negative review on a popular story? Or an easier way to handle defensive little buggers who can’t handle criticism and respond with revenge reviews and PMs that talk about attacking reviewers with nail guns or using cheese graters on a reviewers face? Or how about an automatic 3-day suspension for anyone that threatens self-harm or worse as a way of preventing bad reviews? Here’s a thought: Members under 18 should have an adult’s email attached to the account, and as soon as that minor mentions suicide or self harm, the adult is contacted.

        Maybe ANY threat of physical harm should result in an automatic account closure. Immediately.

      • dawnknits

        08/21/2012 at 12:52 am

        to BIF: I agree, just in general. I’m still fairly new to ff and fandoms, but I’ve been reading about them. Take a look at the history of Buffy sites, and don’t let that sort of thing happen here.

        I posted a comment here about 6 hours ago. Is there any reason for it to be considered for moderation that long? Is that just the norm?

      • konarciq

        08/23/2012 at 8:00 am

        @ Brendan: But I still think your proposed cure is far worse than the illness…

    • yemi hikari

      08/20/2012 at 12:21 am

      To quote this page,

      “… translators have a copyright to their translations, but need to obtain permission from the rights holder of the original work in order to publish that translation.”

      So it does in fact infringe upon copyright.

      • izraill

        08/20/2012 at 3:02 pm

        It was a parody.

      • yemi hikari

        08/20/2012 at 7:22 pm

        If you only changed a few words it doesn’t count as a parody. If you think you changed enough e-mail the site admins. However, you have to change LARGE portions of the original song for it to be considered a parody.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 12:47 am

        Hey, I’ve seen GOOD and GREAT fics on FFN getting deleted while not even breaking the rules! I don’t give a dam about song-fics. To be honest every song-fic I’ve ever read I skipped the songs, most of which I either didn’t know, didn’t have or just couldn’t get the tune into my head, and therefore, didn’t care about. The song lyrics really don’t add anything. If you want ‘songs’ split up through a one-shot or something, just write your OWN poem to go with it. As far as I know poems ARE allowed to be written. (But not copyrighted).

  21. Unyielding Wish

    08/19/2012 at 10:10 pm

    …How did we ever get to the topic about songfics when Xing wasn’t even talking about it? -_- I’m leaving…

    • Guest

      08/19/2012 at 11:29 pm

      Good question. I suppose blogs + human nature = off topic. 😉

    • Myrddin

      08/22/2012 at 12:49 am

      Where else can we ask FFN questions that will be publicly shown for other FFN users to read and comment on? This WordPress blog is for us authors and readers to have a say. So say we shall!

  22. Sam Dutch

    08/19/2012 at 11:04 pm

    To MissPriss,

    I know authors that have had stories reported, removed by admins and then reuploaded by admins. I don’t actually think a lot of them check the story, they just get rid of it. And they don’t really remove the stories that are older even when they go against multiple rules. The admins of the sight do need to do a better job when it comes to reports.

  23. Guest

    08/20/2012 at 12:57 am

    I very much appreciate all of the improvements, Xing.
    I do suggest you guys improve the layout to FFnet’s “Private Messaging”, because whatever PM I receive or send the messages are all over the page horizontally or vertically. O_o
    Unless it’s just a problem on my end and there’s a way to fix it?

  24. xxxmidnitegoffxxx

    08/20/2012 at 1:19 am

    Why are scriptfics banned when there’s a play section on Fictionpress? Better still, why’re scriptfics ban in the first place? I can understand songfics since they’re infringing copyrights and OC submission pages clutter up the achieve (although I do approve having them on forums), but writing in a script format is a proper format.

  25. ashybear

    08/20/2012 at 6:19 am

    I have a few issues/suggestions, 1 being the line breaks in uploading stories. I’ve been having plenty of trouble with it lately, it only allowing me to include one line break if I’m lucky. I write for a lot of challenges and tend to include them up the top then an A/N at the bottom. It’s becoming quite frustrating.

    Also, it would be great to have the option to change to our own timezone in forums and such. Being in Australia and well ahead of time, it can get rather confusing for me when posting in forums. I’d love to be able to switch to my timezone, if at all possible.

    • Myrddin

      08/22/2012 at 12:53 am

      As well as the time zone, I want to be able to put the date as DD/MM/YY as it SHOULD be! Why would anyone think that month goes first?

      • Tune4Toons

        08/22/2012 at 1:58 pm

        Not everyone follows the DD/MM/YY, US and Canada especially. And since FF is US-based, it naturally followed its usual date form of month first.

        But having those option would do nicely.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 7:14 pm

        Yes I know, and some countries have it YY/MM/DD but even that makes sense. However, day should be before year because its less than a month, and then months before year for the same reason. The US way has no reasoning to it, its illogical! At least YY/MM/DD is logical for those countries who write right to left instead of left to right. Its just6 something that annoys the heck out of me. Most other sites or forums I’m a member of gave me the opportunity to change the date and time to my region of the world. It makes life easier for all involved.

      • MMC

        08/22/2012 at 4:20 pm

        I agree with Tune4Toons. I reside in Canada and I’ve always used and seen the MM/DD/YY format. It doesn’t bother me either way as I can figure out which is the month and which is the day, but I didn’t know it was all that different in other countries. Nice to know. 🙂

  26. Jan

    08/20/2012 at 8:11 am

    Not sure if there is a problem with the review area or whether it is a change that you are bringing in but I’ve just left a signed review on a story and it asked me to login to FF BUT I was already signed in so I was wondering why would I need to hit the ‘login’ button once more. Previously it automatically put your name in the review box.

    Okay, it’s only one extra click and then your name appears but it seems a bit odd when you are already logged in.

    • Myrddin

      08/22/2012 at 12:55 am

      Your sign in time isn’t forever, so you might have just timed out when refreshing or turning to the next page.

      • Sam Dutch

        08/22/2012 at 12:56 am

        Actually I had the same problem and I had just signed in. Never even left the website.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 1:47 am

        Oh, well I suppose it could just be a glitch. Sometimes I haven’t been logged in for more than a couple days before it logs me out. Though, it hasn’t happened to me while reviewing.

      • Jan

        08/22/2012 at 5:19 am

        No, I had just signed in so it wasn’t a timed out issue. I can live with it – it’s just a little odd that’s all

  27. jpb

    08/20/2012 at 8:41 am

    I’d like to ask if there is a way that I could find a list of writers that have me on a blocked list. I went to review a story on a “New” writer and after wasting a half an hour trying to read a chapter I went to review only to be told that I was blocked. Now I believe that this “New” account is really just the latest one for a writer that has attacked me before but I can’t prove it and that really isn’t the point. I’d like to be able to avoid stories that I can’t review on. This new account has about a half a dozen half-a$$ed stories on the front page on a slow fandom and she posts a new chapter on one of her stories anytime another writer posts a new chapter on their own stories. She and a select few are trying to drown the fandom with poorly written stories.

    Anyway, I went to check out a few other stories and found that I was blocked from them as well. All “New” writers that I’ve to the best of my knowledge have never had any dealings with though I have seen spam on various review boards in the fandom that flame me and spread awful rumors about me. So like I said, I’d like to be able to see just what writers have blocked me so I won’t waste my time and effort into reading and reviewing. Yes I intended to leave a review and had already typed it up on a word document as I was reading.

    • Human Hunter

      08/24/2012 at 1:38 am

      Curious: what fandom is this?

  28. konarciq

    08/20/2012 at 10:25 am

    Xing, is it perhaps an idea to have a special blog entry where people can spout their ideas to improve the site, and discuss those? Right now, you’ve got them scattered over two dozen entries – it’d be nice if we had a special place where we could discuss those altogether.

    • lord_spyridon

      08/21/2012 at 1:14 am

      I second this idea. Maybe it’ll allow members to add their own sight to each specific suggestion which allow you to take guage of what the majority wants before you implement it.

      • Myrddin

        08/22/2012 at 12:56 am

        I third it!

  29. konarciq

    08/20/2012 at 10:29 am

    Question: does writing new lyrics to an existing song also infringe on the copyright?
    – a) for songs in the public domain
    – b) for more recent songs that are indeed likely to be copyrighted

    And regarding ffnet, does the public domain allowed to use extend beyond the US (e.g. the public domain of other countries)?

    • yemi hikari

      08/20/2012 at 1:54 pm

      If you’re talking parody lyrics, parody always falls under fair use and is the one form of dirivitive work that the original copyright holder can never control.

      • konarciq

        08/20/2012 at 3:25 pm

        I guess you could call it parody, yes. It’s a form that is quite widespread in one of my fandoms: take a well-known song and rewrite the lyrics as if it were sung by the TV show’s characters. Often it tells a story or a short scene in lyrics form, sometimes from a narrator’s pov, sometimes heavily based on “sung” dialogue. Sometimes it stays close to the original theme, and sometimes it takes on a totally different topic. Kind of writing songs for if the show were turned into a musical one day 🙂 (which it won’t…)

      • izraill

        08/20/2012 at 3:26 pm

        I wrote parody lyrics and my story got removed by using song lyrics.

      • yemi hikari

        08/20/2012 at 7:18 pm

        I think I should point ot that a parody of a song changes more then a few words, it is actually making fun of the original song. Have any of you heard of this one?

        Jingle Bells,
        Batman Smells,
        Robin Layed an Egg
        The Joker got Away

        That is what counts as a song parody.

        @ izraill – If I remember correctly you said that you translated the lyrics and changed a few words. That isn’t a song parody.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/20/2012 at 7:20 pm

        I thought Jingle Bells was public domain, so parodies should be too?

      • yemi hikari

        08/20/2012 at 7:39 pm

        @ Cherry – I’m going to say I don’t have an answer to that question. I would think that they would be under copyright themselves.

      • konarciq

        08/21/2012 at 5:49 am

        I think we’d be safe then. It’s mostly nursery rhymes and Christmas songs that get transformed with us. With considerably more than a few words changed – like 95% 😉

      • yemi hikari

        08/21/2012 at 1:58 pm

        I’ll add that MOST, but not all Christmas songs and nursery rhymes ARE in public domain, so you’re also safe in that regard too.

      • izraill

        08/21/2012 at 3:15 pm

        @Yemi hikari. Yes, but I changed the key words and that changed hte meaning of the song. and a parody doesn’t always have to make fun of it.

  30. Jayla

    08/20/2012 at 11:51 am

    Do you guys realize what this is doing to Fanfiction? We’re starting to miss the point. We’re ripping apart FF story by story, author by author! Before anyone says anything else, please remember the whole point of FF! Agreed?

  31. konarciq

    08/20/2012 at 12:24 pm

    Something else – fairly minor, and I’m just wondering. On the page of “Manage my stories”, the dates are given with slashes to separate month, day and year, instead of hyphens like on the story pages. Is there any particular reason for that?
    For a cleaner look, I would very much prefer to have hyphens everywhere on the dates. But it’s no major issue – just something that caught my notice.

  32. Anonymous

    08/20/2012 at 12:44 pm

    So, I still think the horizontal rule is a little too pale. Would it be possible to make the line a couple of shades darker? You don’t have to make it super dark, but a shade or two darker would be nice.

  33. The Imaginatrix

    08/20/2012 at 3:33 pm

    Just tried to click a link on one of my friends’ profile pages, and it wouldn’t even go to the verification page. I thought it might be a glitch, so I went on my own profile and clicked on one of the links there. The same thing happened. Could you please fix this soon? I like checking up on my friend’s Live Journal.
    Also, I noticed the same thing as the person above regarding reviews. For a moment I thought I had been logged out–that has happened before while you were updating–but I hadn’t. I haven’t tried to review anything today, but I hope the problem is fixed with all possible speed.

  34. guest

    08/20/2012 at 5:40 pm

    could you please make all the links so they change purple. I keep reading the same chapter thinking its new when it’s not.

  35. The Imaginatrix

    08/20/2012 at 7:48 pm

    I went on a forum I frequent this morning to find that a friend of one of the regulars on that forum had posted saying that a story this particular member had been working on had been deleted, and she had been locked out of her account, both without prior warning. This person’s pen name is Indigo Shade, and I was wondering if the admins could shed some light on this situation, and perhaps help to rectify it. I hope so. I have read this person’s work, and it is well-written and full of mystery and intrigue. Please do not let such a talent be lost to the site.
    Also, I’m sure fan fictions that take OCs from other readers are not against the rules so long as the form is not posted as part of the story. I have friends who do all that behind the scenes instead, and I see no harm in that.

    • brendan2k5

      08/20/2012 at 10:45 pm

      Tavingtonsbeauty and I have been using each others’ OCs in our respective WarCraft stories in their original context. We’ve changed a few things about them to fit our respective stories but it’s clear they are the same as they are in their source stories.

      I think it’s really up to the Author(s) involved personally.

    • yemi hikari

      08/21/2012 at 1:57 pm

      I’m going to ask if the story in question also took OC donations from other readers and if it was done via PM or forum. I’m honestly not sure that moving the donations from the reviews to the PM or forums would actually change the story from being interactive or not. I would like to know if it was one of these stories in question though, as I’ve been told to suggest this method to the OC donation pools as a way to make them not interactive, but I’ve always been unsure if this method actually made the work not interactive.

      @ brendan2k5 – There is actually a difference between what you’re doing and what these writers are doing. You’ve actually noted that you’re borrowing another persons OC from an already written source story, while these are raw OCs that haven’t had stories written for them yet. And it isn’t as if the writer is being asked to write a fanfic for someone elses OC’s either because the other person can’t write themselves. Not to mention there can be dozens of people donating OCs and one of the things the writer can’t be sure of is whether or no these OCs are “non-historical, non-fictional”, aka… not the donators themselves.

      @ admins – Can I note here that out of all the rules that aren’t clear, the whole “interactive rule” is possibly the most unclear. I’ve seen people who warn people about the stories being rule breakers have varying view points, one of which says that a when a writer is stumped about where to go next in their fanfic that they can’t ask for ideas, and another that says a writer can’t be open to requests. Under some of these definitions a writer can’t give clues at the end of their story when the readers keep asking about something, but the writer can’t reveal the information until a certain point. And truth be told, every story out there can be interacted with to some degree. A definition with the samples may help.

      • Stolloss

        08/21/2012 at 2:24 pm

        Yes, the story took OC donations from readers via PM. I have seen the same recommendation as well, but never heard from any official source as to whether this made the fic interactive or not. This would be a good topic for the admins to give some guidance on, as you said.

      • The Imaginatrix

        08/22/2012 at 2:35 pm

        The rule states that you cannot post the following, and I quote: “Any form of interactive entry: Choose Your Own Adventure, second-person/”you”-based, Q and As, and etc.”
        Here is my understanding of this rule. “Ask the Character” fics and anything resembling those books where you can choose where the story goes are not allowed. Nowhere in the “Do-not-post” list does it say you cannot take OCs period, only that you can’t post the submission form as part of the story. I have personally found several remarkably well-written stories which take OCs, and the creator of each OC is always acknowledged, as with the average disclaimer. I have even created OCs specifically to fit into one of these stories. The authors take the OCs via PM, and I personally think they present a challenge for the writer. In any case, isn’t taking someone else’s characters/concepts and writing your own stories about them what fanfiction is all about in the first place? As for requests, I also think these challenge the writer, and should therefore be allowed, since oneshot collections thrive on requests, and once again, I have found some excellent examples of requested oneshots. Everyone on here wants to be challenged so they can improve their writing, so there’s no harm in obliging them, is there?
        Regarding your question, Yemi Hikari, yes, the story I mentioned above was taking OCs, and from what I’ve learned, the form was posted as part of the story, but that still doesn’t explain why she was given no prior warning before the story was deleted and she was barred from her account, especially since all she had to do was remove the form. I have another friend who had several stories in the form of lists, which she posted before such fics were banned, might I add. She recently got a warning notice telling her either to change the stories to comply with site rules or have them deleted. She changed some and deleted others, and no more was done about it. Shade was not given such luxury. This author is very talented, and it would be a terrible shame if she was lost to the site. I don’t say things like that without meaning them. I’m not part of any clique either; I just want to help out a friend. Please don’t start another long-winded debate on here because of me. All I want is some answers from the admins, and a possible solution.

      • yemi hikari

        08/23/2012 at 2:04 am

        @ The Imaginatrix – Thank you for clarifying the situation. I was curious because I know quite a few people who recommend moving the OC donations to PMs and forums so that the fanfics will be compliant with the site rules. If it got deleted despite the fact it did what was recommended to be rule compliant then a lot of writers would need to be warned that the recommendation actually doesn’t work.

        I still think the site admins need to clarify what they mean about interactive though. I’ve seen people take a really literal translation, but I think from the examples given the site admins have a very specific idea of what they didn’t want in mind. As I’ve said, I’ve seen some people who will report a fanfic as being interactive where a writer says, “I finished this chapter but I don’t know where to go next with this fanfic. Do you guys have any ideas to help me get over the writers block.”

  36. otakulollies

    08/20/2012 at 7:50 pm

    Um i made an account (my old one…something happened? I can’t log on anymore…) and the 2 day waiting period should’ve been gone by now but it isn’t. and i know i’m being picky since it’s only been like 20 min late, but I am just itching to post this story 😛

    and to the arguments on songfics…i personally like writing/reading those, they’re pretty much fanfiction themselves considering the writers are probably “fans” of the song. also, quite a few of them are REALLY good stories…so I think it should be allowed, just disclaim them…

  37. Nessa

    08/21/2012 at 2:56 am

    Um…I’m still having trouble with visited links on the site not being a different color when I click things like an author’s profile or the link that sends us straight to the last chapter. I tend to use the last chapter link to keep track of what stories I’ve read and it’s pretty frustrating when I click on a story only to realize I’ve read it before. Could you please restore it so all links that are clicked change color? It would be a great relief!

    Thank you very much!!

  38. Xana

    08/21/2012 at 3:05 am

    Is anyone else having the problem of when they go to the Story Stat’s page, the boxes keep on growing? I can’t click the scroll bar, but the numbers still hypothetically work… It just grows and grows. o_o And I can’t figure out which countries my readers come from since I only see the first few. It’s kinda weird. xD

    • yemi hikari

      08/21/2012 at 1:32 pm


      • Xana

        08/21/2012 at 10:14 pm

        Well, I suppose I’m glad I’m not the only one. Do you know if they are working on fixing it? It’s a nuisance and it glitches my computer. ):

      • yemi hikari

        08/21/2012 at 10:24 pm

        I hope so.

  39. anonimo

    08/21/2012 at 3:14 am

    por favor activar el sombreado en la lista de favoritos?

    • izraill

      08/21/2012 at 3:25 pm

      Si no hicieron caso cuando lo pidieron en inglés ¿qué te hace pensar que te harán caso en español?

      • UltronMaximus

        08/22/2012 at 8:41 am

        Hasta donde sé, la página sí tiene staff que habla español. Pero de eso a que hagan caso…

  40. BillThomas

    08/21/2012 at 2:32 pm

    The mobile TV communities are not working, which is disappointing since my current main reading focus are TV shows. Please fix this!

  41. Minna San

    08/21/2012 at 3:54 pm

    I have a suggestion. In the “Characters” section for each fanfiction, there should be an OMC (original male character) and an OFC (original female character). Some people like OC stories and it is very frustrating to go through all the pages of stories for one that has an OC. And with OMC and OFC, people can decide if they want to pair a cannon character with a girl or boy original character.

    • konarciq

      08/23/2012 at 8:03 am

      I suppose you can always ask for them in the fandoms where you think them appropriate. Doesn’t necessarily be a default feature.

    • yemi hikari

      08/23/2012 at 9:20 pm

      While I think more fandoms need the OC tag, changing the OC tag to OMC and OFC may cause some problems as some of the writers are no longer on the site and can’t change their stories to OMC or OFC.

  42. Dawn Tindall

    08/21/2012 at 6:32 pm

    Sorry to bother everyone, but I sent a reply to this thread using my id, and it is still awaiting moderation. This was before 1 pm EST yesterday. This time, I logged in with my facebook account, which is not my preferred way. Should I expect my previous replies to show be allowed, or should I just repost using my fb login. Sorry this is off-topic, but I couldn’t find anywhere on this page or to ask.

    Funny, this problem is a good follow-up to my original posting.

    • Dawn Tindall

      08/21/2012 at 9:06 pm

      Were my comments from yesterday rejected? They are not showing up on the page, even as awaiting moderation. I hope this was a mistake. I was trying to add to the discussion.

      • Dawn Tindall

        08/23/2012 at 9:48 am

        I’ll try adding something similar to my original post below. I still have no idea why it was rejected. Is there really a rule that I cannot include a link here too? I cannot find any such rule on the blog, but I’ll assume that was my mistake and just tell people how to access the article about social networking sites.

      • Myrddin

        08/23/2012 at 9:50 am

  43. fxy

    08/21/2012 at 7:04 pm

    Hi! Sounds good and all, but could you please take another look at the fav and alert lists and change it back to the one big list that you could sort any way you wanted? that’d be great. thanks!

  44. Myrddin

    08/22/2012 at 12:22 am

    Hi, I would really love to be able to arrange communities by fandom as those communities that aren’t just one fandom can have lots of stuff I don’t want to read, but collect from several other fandoms I do. It can be hard finding stuff I want to read hunting through it all.

    Thanks a lot,

  45. UltronMaximus

    08/22/2012 at 8:39 am

    Is there a reason why you’re not deleting rule-breaking stories that have been reported constantly during the last two weeks? I’ve been reporting several stories, several times and nothing is happening. This is making the people posting violators bold again. You were keeping such a nice pace deleting what I reported. What’s happening?

    • KageNoNeko

      08/23/2012 at 1:53 pm

      I’ve know I have been able to get a response on some One Direction fanfiction that I reported via email. It is easier to report through email because you will know when the stories get deleted and which ones don’t.

  46. DarkAvalon

    08/22/2012 at 1:51 pm

    I was just wondering if anyone is doing anything about the bullies, Critics United? Despite their supposed to commitment to the rules they seem to be breaking a big one. No harassment or bullying. If you just look at their forums you can see how targeted and evil their harassment is. Its very sad in a community which, to me, was very accepting. Especially since for many places, its never been cool to write fanfiction. Most of us get picked on and bullied enough in real life and don’t need it on Can a site really be teen friendly if a group like Critics United is pushing down and kicking everyone that doesn’t meet their narrow view of the world? I was just wondering since they are ruining what has otherwise been an over ten year enjoyment of this site.

    • MissPriss

      08/23/2012 at 4:49 am

      Wrong. You are just another of those mindless sheep following a trend. Ever since that garbage-filled letter appeared on Tumblr, idiots have been marching forward to indignantly protest the lies that they take as Gospel truth. Check them out yourself and try seeing what they really do instead if mindlessly believing nonsense — that Tumblr crap was started by a writer whose K-rated story about Mickey Mouse being raped by Pluto was reported by CU.

      • Myrddin

        08/23/2012 at 9:36 am

        I’ve looked through Critics United’s forum too, and they are bullies. They go around like the Internet Police and report, report, report, and then make fun of the authors like they’re (CU) effing awesome while everyone else aren’t. In my opinion they’re just hunting through fandom’s and stories just reporting, reporting, reporting as if that’s their job. Its their self appointed mission to attack stories.

        I’ve come across crap beyond crap yet I wouldn’t report it. I might make suggestions but I wouldn’t care to go back and make sure they’ve taken my advice, and then report them if they haven’t.

        I’ve also came across fics that I just find horrid, (though may be awesome4 not my cuppa). However, I would never report them, (otherwise I would report every Harry/Hermione or Naruto/Sakura story I’ve ever found). However, I’ve seen good story’s that are well written and fun having been deleted because from what I can tell, subject matter even those marked as M (without lemons or limes) such as genderbending, and even the odd, fem-lead male, Naru etc. when they NEVER broke the rules. What next, no gay pairings because it might offend someone?

        Whatever, letter you’re talking about I have neither seen nor care about (and anyone writing something so stupid as Mickey being raped by Pluto deserves to be reported just for that). However, CU and or their anon/guest supporters (I’ll admit not all) have been rude and offensive bullying. They remind me of a hate group, hating those who might commit a minor rule break, or those who’s stories breach their morals or sensibilities, or just what they’re uncomfortable with. They seem to try finding the tiniest fault just to eradicate what lots of people consider to be a great story.

      • Miss Priss

        08/23/2012 at 10:07 am

        Wrong again. Critics United only deals with stories that actually break ruless, not stories they just don’t like. Lots of people say otherwise but I have yet to see proof.

        Their thread that deals with author resonses is always handles anonymously with no links or names. If you believe otherwise, show me proof.

        The Complaint thread is full of ranting, raving garbage that members are well within their rights to argue with. I have seen many instances of an unhappy author complaining in a civil manner and being treated with respect by CU members.

        This site is full of people like you, ready to pounce on evry complaint against CU and believe everything with no proof. The amount of sheer lies and idioc,y about a group of perhaps 15 people bringing about so much chaos . . . I don’t know what else to say. Except that there are a lot of gullible, easily-angered morons ready to jump on any cause and believe everything they read, no matter how outlandish and unproven.

      • yemi hikari

        08/23/2012 at 9:16 pm

        I love how people are misusing the term “bully” and “bullying” because it does not mean what they think it does. This is no different then claiming that “flames” are any negative review, which is not true.

    • UltronMaximus

      08/23/2012 at 9:55 am

      I love how the missinformed are still spreading the lies. CU does not bully anyone. They are doing what the site administrators asks of their users by helping police the site in the first place. If you want to be on a rules-free fanfiction site, try mediaminer or a similar one.

      Besides, I noticed in the CU forum that the site administrators did contact them and all they asked was that CU didn’t use curse words. Meaning that the admins are ok with them.

      Also, if you want a troll group, go for the LU and their forum invading tactics.

      • Myrddin

        08/23/2012 at 10:11 am

        CU do bully. Anyway, honestly I care not for losers with nothing better to do. This is what I hate. They’re not just reading stories like normal users. They’re hunting for ‘rule breaking fics’. This is a website not a Mega-City with Judges attacking and ‘jailing’ us at the smallest infringement at the ‘law!’ If admin wants to police the site then they should either do it themselves or copy and not show the fics/chapters until an admin/mod has read and improved it, which will lose me and many other authors!

        I began on this site because at the time it was free, easy, has most fandoms, and WAS open. The rules were there but the admins let them go. The fact is I don’t care about song fics, or those stories written by someone who makes No sense while talking and even less writing. However, I’m pro-choice, and I believe we should be allowed that extra rating for MA as 90% of all popular fandoms could bed considered too violent to someone, or even too sexy. The other FF sites are perfectly capable of covering their butts so why not FF.NET? But as far as I’ve seen they don’t want to even task about it. The ‘hard’ questions from FF.NET get ignored.

        Plus, from what I’ve seen of those claiming to be CU a lot of them do just that, criticise. They don’t say anything like ‘well, your grammar is off here, here, and here, but your story’s been fun. However, its a bit too raunchy, I suggest you tone it down’, or anything like that.

        In addition, do they have experience, references, degrees, or high uni/college scores to show they are qualified to criticise anyone’s work?

      • Miss Priss

        08/23/2012 at 12:44 pm

        More propoganda, more outright lies. You have obviously never dealt directly with CU and are stubbornly refusing to hing outside of you pre-formed ideas and opinions that someonee else has spoon-fed you.

        For the millionth time, they don’t care about stories that don’t break rules. They don’t seek out stories in violation — they simply deal with stories they come across in the process of reading.

        And while their reviews are not fawning heaps of mindless praise, they are in general polite on the first time around. CU members only get a bit outspoken when theyare defending themselves. Usually, from people like you who continue to spout half-truths and slander about an entire group of people.

      • Tune4Toons

        08/23/2012 at 1:21 pm

        @Myrddin – You realise if that kind of moderation starts, it’ll take ages before anyone’s chapter gets to see the light of day? And FFN’s staff alone cannot enforce through hundreds of fandoms with tens of thousands of fanfics to boot. The numbers are too big for that. There’s a reason rules are there. While I don’t 100% agree with what the CU do, they have their reasons, and without that kind of moderation, just imagine how many rule-breaking types would go out of hand. I’ve seen it in my fandom; I don’t plan to see it happen again.

        There’s a reason MA was banned in ’02, and since it’s easy enough for a young child to change the rating in the search bar, allowing that child to get easy access to MA? That goes a bit far.

        It’s open to an extent. “With freedom comes responsibility.” That’s why even “free” countries have laws. No laws, mass killing-spree would be considered okay? It’s a similar comparison.

      • yemi hikari

        08/23/2012 at 9:03 pm

        Pretty much what the person responding before me said. The only two things I’m going to add is this. I really dislike it when people throw the word “bully” around out of context with its actual meaning. I also wish people would remember how much bigger ffnet is then all the other fanfiction sites out there. Not only are they smaller and not as well known there are sites that just haven’t lasted for one reason or another. The only other two sites I know of that are as large as ffnet are DA and LJ and they are not “non-profit”, they are for sites that make a profit, and their main focus isn’t fanfiction.

    • Jayla

      08/23/2012 at 10:12 am

      You could not have said it better for me. I’m down right tired of them ruining everyone!

  47. teniyah

    08/22/2012 at 2:13 pm

    this really is nice to have some people that thinks about the things as fanficton..ers need to servive

  48. Anonymous

    08/22/2012 at 2:17 pm

    A suggestion: I think it would be really great if we could use bold, italic, and underline in our reviews. Every time I want to emphasize something I have to use capslock and it makes me feel like I’m shouting.

    • MMC

      08/22/2012 at 4:15 pm

      I want to agree on this. Sometimes when I quote sentences from stories I read in order to provide corrections, I have to use some sort of “symbol” to point out to the author what I just corrected. This would be a nice feature!

    • yemi hikari

      08/23/2012 at 1:36 am

      Or you end up putting stuff in quotations.

      • yemi hikari

        08/23/2012 at 1:37 am

        On the flip side, there will be people who will abuse being allowed different font changes, so if it is put into place there will need to be some rules put in place.

      • MMC

        08/23/2012 at 3:06 am

        Sorry, I wasn’t sure if that was directed at me. If so, let me clarify. I do use the quotation marks when I quote a sentence from a story (101 in learning citation after all). It’s when I correct what’s within the quoted sentence that things get messy.

        Ex: “Alice was a little to late in snapping out of her thoughts…”

        I would quote that from a story and then correct it; knowing the “to” is the wrong variation. Usually how I would fix that is like this:

        “Alice was a little [to] late in snapping out of her thoughts…” (‘to’ should be ‘too’)

        That’s usually how I do it when the sentences are pretty easy to fix. But when there are other things like missing wrong or more spelling mistakes in the same sentence or whatnot, I feel like it would be easier in distinguishing what was pointed out/changed by manipulating the font.

        Ex: ““He’s taking so long. I wonder what’s up[?]” Alice whispered /too/ herself as she walked towards the dormitory, tucking [a] lock of /hare/ behind her left ear.” (‘too’ should be ‘to’ and ‘hare’ should be ‘hair’)

        Here, if we had any bolding or italicizing feature, I could use the square brackets to indicate where a missing word/punctuation is and the italicized/bolded words (represented between the forward slashses) could indicate a spelling mistake or even an additional word that isn’t needed.

        I don’t know. I feel like it would be a bit of a ‘cleaner’ approach in helping to correct mistakes through a review, but you, Yemi Hikari, do have a point that there’s a chance of abuse. I guess I’m just really persistent when it comes to easy-to-read critiques when I do the quoting thing. That, or I just like adding more to my plate than I should. 😛

      • konarciq

        08/23/2012 at 8:06 am

        @ yemi: Maybe a silly question, but how does one abuse different font changes if those are limited to quotation, bold, italic and underlined? I kinda find it hard to imagine abuse in that.

      • ~Cherry!~

        08/23/2012 at 8:08 am

        Someone posts a comment completely in bold, italics etc.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/23/2012 at 1:05 pm

        But then if the person is quoting a quotation, it gets a little messy there because you need to mess with the punctuation of what you are quoting. There’s always a con to every option that can be chose. Italics, bold, and underlining are all things that make it harder to read a piece of text.

      • Tune4Toons

        08/23/2012 at 1:25 pm

        Haha I’d love to see this kind of feature. Though even if the review reading gets hard to read, there is still the email alert, right?

      • izraill

        08/23/2012 at 3:44 pm

        @ Yemi, I’ve seen more sites where you can use all those features in reviews and no one abuses (actually, no one uses them).

      • MMC

        08/23/2012 at 4:20 pm

        @KageNoNeko: Yeah, I noticed that messy quoting a quotation when I used that example, but I myself don’t find that a big problem (unless of course I’m quoting a whole section of dialogue–that would be a nightmare!). I guess a quick way to fix that would be to remove my quotations when quoting a whole section, use that “Ex: quotequotequote…” thing, and then add my ‘notes’ so to speak under that on a new line like so:

        Ex: “He’s taking so long. I wonder what’s up[?]” Alice whispered /too/ herself as she walked towards the dormitory, tucking [a] lock of /hare/ behind her left ear.
        My Notes: (‘too’ should be ‘to’ and ‘hare’ should be ‘hair’)

        Like I said, I don’t know. LOL I find reading italics and bold (as long as it’s not overdone) easier to read than underlined words. But you know, this has me thinking: I can’t remember, but when the reviews boxes used to be pop-up windows, were we ever given the chance to ‘preview’ our review before posting? I honestly can’t remember for the life of me, but I feel like having the preview button could be helpful so I myself know that I’m not making my critique-y reviews confusing to read before I post. LOL

        @Tune4Toons: Haha, that’s true, but the email alert automatically does that ‘cut-off’ thing when the review is too long. xD

      • yemi hikari

        08/23/2012 at 8:34 pm

        Ahh… so it would only allow a different font style when quoting was being done. I was more of worried about simply giving the reviewers the option of italics, bold and underline. If some of the writers are abusing it in their stories, they’re going to abuse it in their reviews to. Not all, but if there is a guideline about what not to do and what is re-portable people are less likely to hopefully do it.

      • konarciq

        08/24/2012 at 5:13 am

        Ooookay… I still don’t quite see how the use of different font styles (even if the entire review is written in it) can be considered abusive. It certainly wouldn’t bother *me*. But maybe I’m thinking of another type of abuse.

        Anyway, I’d already be happy if the reviews would have a quote function. The rest is extra.

  49. The Imaginatrix

    08/22/2012 at 2:43 pm

    I’m still unable to click on the external links in my friend’s profile, and it’s been two days. My screen-reader still says they are clickable, but nothing happens when I press enter on them. I’ve also tried left-click, and still no dice. Is anyone else having this problem? If so, I hope Zing and co fix it really soon, because it’s not fair to bring something back and then make it unaccessable again less than a month later.

    • ~Cherry!~

      08/22/2012 at 2:59 pm

      Maybe your pop-ups are blocked or some java en-script error?

      • The Imaginatrix

        08/22/2012 at 3:25 pm

        They were working before. Are you able to click on external links? I don’t know if it’s also my browser, but I use Bing to search for stuff.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/22/2012 at 5:48 pm

        Well, I check to see if I could figure out the problem, but I can’t see anything when I used my web development toolbar or the HTML validator extension that I have that would apply to the links causing problems for screen readers or other things like that. However, what I find in the HTML code is a bunch of lazy coding where tables are used in weird places and old code is used.

    • The Imaginatrix

      08/23/2012 at 1:26 pm

      It’s nothing to do with my screen-reader. My mum checked it out, and the links still look like they can be clicked on, but no matter what key I press, nothing’s happening. Again I ask, is anyone else having this problem? I’m pretty sure it’s the site, but I need to know if anybody else has noticed this.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/23/2012 at 2:16 pm

        @The Imaginatrix, I wouldn’t be surprised if you will not hear about others who is having problems.

        I wish web developers are able to have access to screen readers to test out things.

      • The Imaginatrix

        08/23/2012 at 4:09 pm

        I REPEAT: This problem has NOTHING to do with my screen-reader. How could it? I just want to be able to use the links again. Please help me someone!

      • The Imaginatrix

        08/23/2012 at 4:15 pm

        Would it help if I told you I use Windows Internet Explorer?

      • KageNoNeko

        08/23/2012 at 7:41 pm

        @The Imaginatrix, you need to use another browser. I pulled up IE on my computer and found I could not click on the link at all. IE is the culprit not your screen reader. If you were using another browser, clicking on the link brings up a pop up box that has the link again to make sure you know where you are going. This pop up box will not show up.

        @XING, You need to do some testing with Internet Explorer NOW. There is some problems with the external links on user profiles if they are using Internet Explorer.

      • Sam Dutch

        08/23/2012 at 8:45 pm

        I use IE8 I believe and it works fine for me. I think it depends on what version you use.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/23/2012 at 8:58 pm

        @Sam Dutch, Internet Explorer 9 is what I’m using.

        As a web developer, I despise Internet Explorer because the older versions before 8 require Javascript to render an HTML 5 webpage correctly. IE has only recently become a much more better standards complaint browser. I could rant all the day why IE shouldn’t even been used.

      • Sam Dutch

        08/23/2012 at 9:00 pm

        Ah, well I’m not a web-developer, I just surf it with my IE8. I don’t mind it, I like the set up it has compared Fire-Fox but it’s all opinion.

      • The Imaginatrix

        08/23/2012 at 8:52 pm

        Yes, Zing, please run those tests and fix this. I cannot change my browser at the moment, and I would rather the problem be resolved without me having to do so. I suspect it might have something to do with more recent updates, as I used to be able to click on the external links, and I’ve always had Internet Explorer as my browser.
        Thank you, KageNoNeko, for checking all this out for me. I really appreciate it.

      • KageNoNeko

        08/23/2012 at 9:02 pm

        You are welcome. I should thank you for telling me that you were using Internet Explorer because that is what helped me figure out it was browser related issue. The staff of this website probably should have done some serious user testing because they would have found out about this problem.

      • Jayla

        08/23/2012 at 9:10 pm

        How many staff are there at FF? Always been curious.

      • konarciq

        08/24/2012 at 5:16 am

        I’ve been wondering about that, too…

  50. wandex system

    08/22/2012 at 3:40 pm

    Umm… What’s up with the PM function? Every time I try to write a message, the site turns off, leaving me alone with Google 😦
    I tried accessing the PMs from the links in my e-mails, via inbox or from someone’s profile, but this keeps happening O-O


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