Periods and Emails

29 Sep

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Posted by on 09/29/2013 in Uncategorized


430 responses to “Periods and Emails

  1. knotothedrk

    10/04/2013 at 12:08 am

    …if i may… a parent on a war path is still a parent on a war path… people sue over the dumbest stuff…. need I remind you of the “This coffee is hot” Well, no duh it’s hot… it’s a hot coffee…. same could be said for any sort of stories…

    A ticked off parent is still a ticked off a parent…

    That’s my issues with M rated content to begin with… it is a fluid concept based on morality and ideals… a story may not have smut or horrific violence, to attract people who think it’s MA…it’s all debatable in the eye of the beholder…

    Then, there are also the sunning amount of guest reviewers as of late they don’t see their beloved MA content in an M rated fic…and they proceed to harass the writer….that happens a lot too… peer pressure be confounded!

    It happens to me all the time… and once i find out who’s doing it, I will deal with that guest(s) accordingly… however the fact is… it’s not just the MA writers we need to deal with… it’s the readers who want to read it too… there is a startling number…

    • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

      10/04/2013 at 1:06 am

      Please research the McDonald’s suit before putting down the individual who sued that particular franchise.

      That particular location had been cited numerous times by the health department for serving coffee that was far too hot to be served. Though that case will live in infamy, it is for the wrong reasons – it lives as a testament to frivolous lawsuits when really it should be accepted as something that finally got them to turn down their coffee maker to an acceptable temperature.

      Any cup of coffee that lands you in a hospital for eight days is too hot. Period. There really is a world of information in the Liebeck v. McDonald’s suit that you’re dismissing. Such as the fact that they had chosen to settle over 700 claims for a total of approximately half a million dollars prior to allowing that one to go to court.

      As to the MA/M issue – I thought we had explained this sufficiently. As to people confusing the two when reading, if the admins policed the content, then there would be no confusion, because the MA content would not be on site.

      It is clear – suggestion is permitted in M, explicit material is not. If you don’t know the difference between the two terms, may I suggest looking at Honestly, that’s the best I can do for you, because you’ve been given examples.

      And while you may not be responsible for bringing up someone else’s child, you are responsible for what you post in a place where you know, unequivocally that a child will view it.

      If readers are chewing you out for not posting porn? It’s simple. Post an AN at the top of your story. This is what’s on one of mine:
      “There’s innuendo, but nothing more. Not on a teen site where I’ve personally found people proclaiming to be preteens.”

      It’s that simple. It’s at the top, so they see it, they don’t like that, they can click the back button. It doesn’t hurt my feelings.

      • yemi hikari

        10/04/2013 at 2:08 am

        Apparently they’ve missed the point we were trying to make as they posted a comment just after this one about how M rated content should be treated like MA content on other sites.

    • yemi hikari

      10/04/2013 at 2:14 am

      I’ve written a few M rated fanfics and I’ve never had a problem with people asking me to add in MA content. Contrary to what people say it is rather easy to tell the difference between M and MA content as well and those who are borderline actually get warnings from the site admins because the admins know that there is a borderline area.

    • Ruri

      10/04/2013 at 9:57 pm

      “That’s my issues with M rated content to begin with… it is a fluid concept based on morality and ideals… a story may not have smut or horrific violence, to attract people who think it’s MA…it’s all debatable in the eye of the beholder…”


      Many people insist of knowing what it’s the difference between M and MA, yet even when using a rigid rating guide there are double standards even with professional published material (this is specially obvious in movies. It’s so common for explicit violence can get a PG-13 rating, a non explicit het sex scene a R rating and a homosexual kiss a NC-18).

      I have mentioned more that once that it would be helpful if there was a clear explanation of what it’s considered M and what MA *on FF*, but sadly that has been ignored.

      And the thing is? I have seen slash fics without any explicit content being reported by people who are offended by homosexuality and thought it deserved a MA rating, and in some cases those fics have been deleted, probably because there were that many report that the team of mods/admins didn’t even check if those reports were real or not.

      Most people complaining about M/MA fics are just the same, they have THEIR STANDARDS and want to see the site “clean” of any content they consider too “mature” for the M rating.

      Until Xing makes clear his views about the ratings and we have a clear standard to uphold on the site (even if we don’t agree with it), all witch hunts don’t have any reason for their actions even if they keep saying they do because most stories reported as being MA are borderline and depend of the eye of the beholder.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 3:59 am

        It’s so common for explicit violence can get a PG-13 rating, a non explicit het sex scene a R rating and a homosexual kiss a NC-18).


        Violence and sexual content have always been on different grading scales due to the fact you can start introducing children to the concepts of violence before you can start introducing them to the concept of sexual content. That’s why there is a difference between the two.

        Second, while I have heard rumors that people have had their T rated stories removed because their is a homosexual kiss in said stories I’ve never heard of M rated stories being kicked because there is a homosexual kiss in them. Talk about over exaggeration here.

        It’s an issue of choosing to suggest things (which is M content) or instead choosing to get descriptive (which is MA content). How hard is that to understand? And yes… there is more you can get away when it comes to violence then sexual content. It comes from what I said above. The explaining of violent content and situations comes before explaining sexual content and situations to a child.

      • cathy massey

        10/10/2013 at 11:53 pm

        I’ve got to admit that I’ve seen too many homosexual kisses in K+ on this site. I’ve been told by authors that it was not slash, but “pre-slash” when I asked them to up-rate it.

        I’ve clicked the ‘Report Abuse’ button more than once for that.

        My gut feeling is put it in ‘M’.

      • cmcwiki

        10/11/2013 at 12:53 am

        now that depends. A kiss is a kiss whether it be between a man and woman, or two of the same. Does the kiss involve tongue? That’s T and should be bumped up to T. I don’t read slash fiction, but i think it is very unfair to list two wo/men kissing as M when we list a man and woman kissing as K.

        Lip on lip=K
        Tongue on tongue=T

      • cathy massey

        10/11/2013 at 7:39 pm

        cmcwiki –

        I’d say:

        Friends or teammates – hug (as in enthusiasm, joy, etc.) – K
        Parent kisses young child or vice versa – K
        Boyfriend&Girlfriend hugs or kiss OR Husband&Wife hugs or kiss – K
        Husband & Wife holding hands & walking toward bedroom door AND closing it/scene – T
        Boyfriend & Girlfriend holding hands and climbing into back seat at drive-in – M (even if scene closes)

        Married person & someone other than spouse (M/F) – simple hug K+
        Married person & other than spouse kiss (M/F) – T

        M/M or F/F kiss nonromantic – goodbye, luck, etc. – K+
        M/M or F/F kiss for romantic reason = M

      • cathy massey

        10/11/2013 at 10:44 pm

        Got interrupted and sent a little too soon – wanted to add that I’ll agree with you. Tongues and groping definitely bump it up to T and M levels.

      • Vicky (@Andromakhe)

        10/20/2013 at 4:25 am

        I’m with Wuri and Knotothedrk on the M/MA issue. People have different thresholds regarding what is graphic, what’s vulgar, what’s a turn-on or funny. That’s why it’s tough writing humor or intimate scenes. I enjoy erotica and was reading explicit Harlequin romances in high school. Sure, the wording was tasteful, but it was still detailed description.

        But I think the difficulty is that the wording of the guideline about graphic descriptions of sex/violence is too vague. Is sex defined as heavy petting, kissing, taking clothes off, or only the intercourse itself? Is violence dealing with any kind of abuse, only physical abuse, only blood? If bleeding, how much bleeding? Is a bloody nose okay, versus a stabbing? The wording is unclear, and if restrictions are too stringent, you can’t write anything at all. I don’t enjoy darkfic or noncon, but such subject matter should not be banned just because it would be considered too adult. Also, what’s suggestive to one person may be explicit to another. Who decides that something has crossed the line? We really need clear examples and definitions of terminology. Even if examples of allowed/disallowed descriptions don’t cover everything, there’d at least be an idea of where the limits are.

  2. knotothedrk

    10/04/2013 at 12:14 am

    Sorry… added thought process… a “guest” shouldn’t be able to view M rated fiction….in case it is some under aged kid… but that’s just a precaution I would take… or make a disclaimer saying it’s for 16+ when you go to read it…

    • yemi hikari

      10/04/2013 at 2:00 am

      Yeah… my answer is the same as the other times people have brought this up. No. There is no reason for M rated material to have such restrictions. It punishes the non-rule breakers and provides an excuse for the rule breaker.

      • knotothedrk

        10/04/2013 at 9:02 am

        okay, now this truly sounds like a witch hunt…

        You’re worried the site will get sued…you’re worried smut, but not about children who are under the age of 16 are reading content for a 16 year do not want prevent that? You do not want to take every precaution necessary to prevent these youth from seeing content that is not for them…

        This is not making sense… it truly isn’t logical to want to go on an MA related warpath, without realizing the site could get sued for a plethora of other reasons besides MA/copyright infringements…families have different ideals…and unless you realize that, and understand it, all you’re doing is provoking one side to a very gray argument…because if the child can still see the rated subject matter in question, it still puts us at risk, because we are allowing them to see the content.

        Content they should NOT be seeing.

        It isn’t right to think it appropriate to just deal with the situation by using story take downs and banning… if you feel so strongly in the regards, then other measures should be taken too…. ones that prevent these sort of troubles… it isn’t an excuse… it’s a practical solution…because right now, a guest child, under the age of 16 may see that M content for a 16 year old…

        MA isn’t the only issue I’m bringing to the table here…never even mind that… just normal M content is still accessible for children….thus, still worthy of a law suit…and unless you see and realize that… this MA single mindedness will do very little good…

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/04/2013 at 9:36 am

        And again, I point out that the site had a “click here to view this material” button once, and it was eliminated when they removed adult content.

        The site defaults to K-T ratings and users have to choose to see M material.

        Children will lie about their ages, and unless parents are actively monitoring what their children are viewing, there’s nothing that can be done punitively there.

        Yes, people’s morals differ, but you continue to argue that while ignoring the facts. The site has done everything it can in order to limit the material being put readily in front of children that is rated as “M”. What they have not done is police the M rated content and remove that which does not belong.

        People rate their stories K and they contain graphic sex or violence (yes, one was just deleted this week that was such a case).

        We’re not “on a witch hunt” for MA material – and we’re not ignoring the possibility of lawsuits. You seem to be ignoring the fact that the admins won’t get rid of people who shouldn’t be here for being under 13 as I pointed out to you before. If they won’t do that, what makes you think that there’s any concern at all for forcing login to view M material?

  3. knotothedrk

    10/04/2013 at 9:43 am

    There isn’t any concern at all…and for 10 years, this site was going down into the gutter due to it…I’m well aware……that’s part of the issue…I’m not denying or disregarding it…

    I was just making a point to Yemi that such a thing should still be there seeing as as the website should put every effort in possible…

    If that’s not there…a lawsuit can still take place, that is my only point…

    • Lillian

      10/04/2013 at 12:09 pm

      It is a very poorly thought out point.

    • yemi hikari

      10/04/2013 at 2:24 pm

      Again, the site’s not going to get sued for M rated material. They’re going to get sued for the MA material posted as M.

  4. Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

    10/04/2013 at 9:49 am

    Admins – blatant copyright infringement:

    I personally don’t care if she’s falling asleep reading a traditional book, this is illegal. Uploaded yesterday.

    THANK YOU for deleting the troll allmystory/Wireless-Sk. You left the CKH account though.

    • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

      10/04/2013 at 11:03 am

      A list of stories copying Ms Rowling’s work has been e-mailed.

      Additionally, I have sent you reports on UIDs 1781973, 843730, 3260675, 4211916, 3036046, 826946, 2131792, 2302766, 1812940, 2102950. All of those users are in violation of copyright, and by the ID #s you can see that some of that material is quite old – dating back to 2005.

      Please process the e-mails. Your efforts in these matters over the last couple days are GREATLY appreciated.

      • cmcwiki

        10/04/2013 at 11:05 am

        Keep up the good work Rogue, I suppose the publishing companies will be more lenient with us since we are proving that we are addressing and taking care of the problem. Heres hoping for more success.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/04/2013 at 11:05 am

        And please get rid of this:
        What’s on that profile is abominable.

      • cmcwiki

        10/04/2013 at 11:16 am

        holy cow that story, I believe that it has 5 violations. despite being posted in the Hannah Montana fandom i think it qualifies as a real person fic. abusive hateful content towards others, looking at the reviews apparently to add insult to injury of an injury its plagiarized, language that goes far beyond the T-rating, MA content

        Okay I think that any fandoms containing people who star as themselves (scripted or not) should be removed. for one thing it brings a lot of confusion and promotes real person fics seeing as they can be held in the same continuity as the real world.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/04/2013 at 11:11 am

        @cmcwiki – if the site can prove that they are actively attempting to remove the copyright infringement, that will be of use to their attorneys if there is ever legal action against the site. But they can’t just do this every once in a while.

        They have to prove continual monitoring, continual removal. Prevention of new uploads, which is why I was posting the ones that showed up in “Just In” yesterday, is essential to their defense.

        They’re now on the right track, and hopefully, one day, I won’t be able to go to any search engine, on site or off, and find copyrighted materials. Hopefully, soon, there would even be monitoring of reports regarding plagiarism of individual users, not something that I would have to report for months without end.

        With that, let me say thank you for removing the plagiarism perpetrated upon dracosoftie (finally) by sc4rhead. I’ve sent her a PM to advise her that you did, but I truly appreciate the efforts you are making there as well, showing your users that their material can be safely posted on your site without fear of someone stealing it and their reports to you regarding theft being ignored. These efforts are MOST appreciated!

      • Lillian

        10/04/2013 at 12:12 pm

        One of XTheSonofHadesX stories got taken down!! Thank you admins! I also noticed that more copyright infringers were taken down.. Good, now keep it up.

    • cathy massey

      10/04/2013 at 12:48 pm

      I’m curious. How do you find all this plagiarized content? I thought this site prevented things like Google and the WayBack Machine from scanning the content within stories.

      I’m not being critical here – far from it! I’m just a non-techie neophyte ignoramus who’s encountered something new and wants to learn more.

      • Lillian

        10/04/2013 at 12:57 pm

        Well, there are several ways to find them. The first being the most common, search through the entire archive of that fandom.

        Another, much easier, method is to type in “reading the books” in the FFN search. You would not believe the results (you can do this with songfics and reading fanfiction too.). Doing it via search will also grant you to the “update” option to see what works are new, and were updated, in whatever fandom.

        And yes, you can search via Google for them too. There are also special communities for the works as well.

        For the trickier ones, the first option would be the best since they wouldn’t post searching condemning notes in summaries, titles, or author notes.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/04/2013 at 1:01 pm

        The site’s robots may prevent Wayback, but the site is openly mapped for Google searches. Regardless, the site’s internal engine can be used to find the material. Simply search for “Aladdin” in the summary field of any story, and you will find numerous pieces infringing on Disney’s copyright by quoting the text verbatim. (You have to click on the story to determine.)

        Additionally, people travel in packs. This is true in all communities, so where you find one infringer, checking their favorite authors list will usually find you five more.

        I’m actually grateful that the site is mapped to Google (please do NOT change that!) so that we can easily find when our own stories have been stolen by others.

        I still say you need to hire more people, Xing, but I’m ever so grateful that you’ve appropriated personnel to the task of cleaning up your archive!

      • yemi hikari

        10/04/2013 at 2:29 pm

        For the RTB… well, there are tons of C2s dedicated to said stories. Other stories use the same title and others… well, you can just google the first line of any book to see if they’ve been copy pastaed with or without edits.

        I don’t go out of my way to find them though. RTB’s popular in the HP fandom though and many of the young writers don’t understand that transcribing another persons story isn’t writing.

      • cathy massey

        10/05/2013 at 9:20 pm

        So, you kinda have to know what you’re expecting to find, at least in a general way, and then go look in the right places where experience tells you it frequently can be found?

        Huge job – I salute you for it.

  5. knotothedrk

    10/04/2013 at 9:57 am

    may I ask what this person is plagiarizing? I’m not really sure I know what it is I’m looking for here when I click this link.

    • knotothedrk

      10/04/2013 at 9:58 am

      I realize it’s someone else’s… but who is the person this author is posting about?

  6. knotothedrk

    10/04/2013 at 1:21 pm

    what’s up with the nude adverts I’m seeing occasionally on some profiles, or across the header and footer of the website/….. It’s the big square ones that say “FREE LIVE CHAT” or other odd things…. what’s wrong with these adverts…. that has nothing to do with the authors..

    There’s also one that says… “Girls, boys, couples, mature, lesbians, fetishes” and that’s an advert too…. what’s up with that?

    • Cmcwiki

      10/04/2013 at 1:48 pm

      These ads are shown based on your browser cookies. That or a weird bug. I’d recommend Adblock plus for chrome and Firefox or clearing your browsers history cookies and cache

      The Adblock is free by the way

      • knotothedrk

        10/04/2013 at 1:51 pm

        ….well, that advert is a very strange advert to have on this computer of all things… it’s a fairly new comp…

      • Cmcwiki

        10/04/2013 at 1:57 pm

        Well if you transferred all of your data from an older one there’s a chance that a virus somehow formed on there from corrupted data

        That or you have a curious teen in the house. I might recommend getting a security program like AVG and run a scan

    • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

      10/04/2013 at 2:30 pm

      This does bring up an interesting point though – Xing, have you considered creating an address to report inappropriate advertisements?

      Since you do have restrictions against adult material being on site (though currently sporadically enforced), it would of course be counterintuitive to have adult advertisements.

      I understand – more things for your staff to do – but, it is something that you should consider, given that you don’t want the explicit adult advertisements showing up on site.

      • Lillian

        10/04/2013 at 3:58 pm

        I have to agree with them on this Xing. When one is doing research on certain topics for a fanfiction or original works, it would be nice to search the archive without advertisements for those related things popping up.

      • bienfait

        10/04/2013 at 6:34 pm

        I’m a little puzzled by the ads some people seem to be getting. The ones I see are uniformly respectable and boring – banks, superannuation funds, Hyundai End Of Year Run-out, postgraduate degrees from reputable institutions, Scenic Tours European river cruises, New York Times Global Edition subscriptions…

        My browsing history must be terribly dull.

      • seila

        10/05/2013 at 1:59 am

        Much agreed. Although thankfully few and far between, there have been a handful of rather nasty ads.

        Although along the line of ads. . . Are the full page redirection ones gone? I wouldn’t mind turning off my adblocker while browsing the archives here if they are.

      • cathy massey

        10/05/2013 at 8:38 pm

        Usually, I see eminently respectable ones, but there have been a few for online gaming sites that push suggestive a bit far…

      • cathy massey

        10/05/2013 at 8:55 pm

        Is a ‘full page redirection’ ad one of those aggravating horrors that would overwrite the whole screen a couple of minutes after you’d opened the page, then not be closable for a minute or two?

        Mercifully, I haven’t seen any of those in many months, and I’ve never used an ad-blocker

      • seila

        10/06/2013 at 1:21 am

        Yep, the whole page covering ads are actually what I meant. And they’re most of the reason I lost my patience with ads and got a blocker. Good to hear they’re gone.

        Thanks 🙂

  7. knotothedrk

    10/04/2013 at 2:53 pm

    Everything came back clean…but yeah…. I agree with Rogue, that might be something to look into…

  8. The Warty Hogg

    10/04/2013 at 4:02 pm

    I think the admin in charge of abuse reports got a new chain for the bike! I am seeing more copyright infringement deletions. Although those ‘characters read the book’ communities should be deleted to the last period. Yow.

    • Lillian

      10/04/2013 at 5:34 pm

      It looks like they finally listened to our complaints.. I wonder if we’ll get a new report system soon, or if we’ll get a post from Xing proclaiming they are working on it while clarifying some rules.

    • yemi hikari

      10/04/2013 at 5:36 pm

      I don’t think they should delete the C2s. What better way to make it clear that RTB isn’t allowed then to allow these empty archives to remain as well as keep a list of them to check back on to make sure no more rule breaking ones are added. One of the C2s I found had 1181 stories and bragged about having that much is now down to 701.

      • Lillian

        10/04/2013 at 6:02 pm

        It would be a fitting punishment for the braggers of the site, wouldn’t it. I second this.

      • Cmcwiki

        10/04/2013 at 6:10 pm

        I third it

      • Spyridon

        10/05/2013 at 12:47 am

        I also add my support behind this.

  9. Lynn Hollander

    10/04/2013 at 6:32 pm

    Thanks for the various efforts. I used a number of functions relating to managing my account today and everything worked smoothly and the first time of trying. Again, thanks.

  10. The Warty Hogg

    10/04/2013 at 8:31 pm

    I just went and happily reported all the old ‘stories’ on the reading the books community. So, the admins have known for several years that blatant copyright infringement was happening but did nothing about it. Not encouraging.
    Still, most of the stories petered out after a few dreadful chapters so I guess we can be grateful for that. And grateful that maybe copyright rules will be enforced.

      • tiquatue

        10/05/2013 at 1:22 am

        It may be better to leave the C2s without stories, but it’s probably a whole lot easier on Xing and Co. to delete them (and their contents) wholesale.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 1:33 am

        @ titquatue – Problem is not everything in the C2s breaks the rules. Some of the C2s contain not just RTB but other stories as well.

      • The Warty Hogg

        10/05/2013 at 5:22 pm

        Well, with over 300 copyright violating communities, I guess I have my work cut out for me to report them all. I’ll start at the top of the list and keep going. Sadly, I am old, persistent and OCD.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 10:00 pm

        Do you mean sadly for you because you know it’s going to be tedious for you or do you mean sadly for the writers because your a stubborn SOB? I meant the SOB part as a compliment. The one C2 that was posted to the blog is almost cleared out of stories last I checked. May already be cleared out.

  11. The Warty Hogg

    10/05/2013 at 1:40 pm

    This real person troll fic has been reported and reported and still it is there. Maybe if someone saw the contents, they would do something:
    The entire mess can be found here:


    This should have been deleted months ago. I am only posting it here in absolute desperation that the admins DO SOMETHING.


    One morning, Miley, the fat, ugly, dumb cunt, woke up from a bad dream. She dreamt she was being raped by Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.

    As we all know, Miley Stewart is a cocaine-addicted, contraceptive skank who fell out of someone’s vagina by accident.

    Anyway, when Miley got out of bed, she stepped in Blue Jeans’s piss and shit.

    “GODDAMN IT!” Miley screamed in her stupid hillbilly voice.

    Miley walked downstairs and tried to find something for breakfast. There was nothing for Miley to eat because her dad didn’t love her enough to feed her. Miley had Down Syndrome and was too retarded to fix breakfast for herself so she went back upstairs and ate Blue Jeans’s piss and shit.

    After breakfast, Roxy took Miley to the tattoo parlor so she could get a tattoo of Satan on her ass. While Miley was getting the tattoo, the tattoo artist accidentally stuck a very sharp needle up Miley’s bare ass.

    “WAAAHHH! ROXY, I GOT A NEEDLE STUCK UP MY WEE-WEE!” Miley whined like the annoying bitch that she is.

    Roxy took Miley to the hospital. Miley cried all the way there.


    • knotothedrk

      10/05/2013 at 2:05 pm

      ….Okay…I am now thoroughly disturbed…

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 3:04 pm

        And to think, that’s rated T. Yet it says “EXPLICIT SEXUAL IMAGERY”

        This is why they need to police the material uploaded in every rating, not just the M rating. This is why blocking it out to logged in users <iwon’t work because then they’ll just rate it down even more than they are now.

        Until they police the content itself, requiring login does nothing to help the situation.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 3:10 pm

        Here’s another reason they need to have at least two people monitoring new uploads:

        Users know this is against the rules, but they do it anyway.

        Xing, it’s clear to everyone that you’re overwhelmed with what needs to be done here. You’ve got reports as old as March 2013 of plagiarism that I know haven’t been resolved. You’ve got reports from last year at least on non-story content on site.

        I appreciate – I truly do – that you are reappropriating staff to the RTB/copyright infringement issue. But since you do have so much to take care of, I honestly, truly think that you need to consider your staffing options. You have so much data on site and so little personnel to apparently handle it.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 3:14 pm

        This exact content is exactly why the site admins aren’t ever going to allow MA content even though there are a few writers and stories that are of good quality. It’s kind of like how they aren’t going to allow an exception to the real person rule just because one real person says they’re all right with it.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 3:38 pm

        Yes! Please do a purge.

    • yemi hikari

      10/05/2013 at 2:59 pm

      I’m going to add that this is the exact content of not one but two spam reviews I received a few months ago? One was thankfully anonymous but the second I had to report. Don’t know if it ever got removed as I can’t remember which story it was posted too as it has been so long and I have so many.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 3:02 pm

        They did remove … five? users who had posted this as spam reviews and stories – but for some reason left others. I suppose because the ones they deleted also had profanity in their user names.

      • cathy massey

        10/06/2013 at 2:15 am

        Out of curiosity, I took a look at the link above to the “Marauders-Era-Time-Travel” offender. I thought at first that this might be some clueless soul posting a search, but it turns out the author behind it has 7 posts. Two are Read the Book, two songfics, one is the above-mentioned query, and two (presumably!) original works.

        And the sort of author’s bio that usually leaves me abandoning all hope when I encounter it (for finding any quality reading and for the future of society).


      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/06/2013 at 11:12 pm

        cathy – the reading books and songfics are now deleted, as is the story search. 🙂 Zack has been a busy beaver, and I’m very grateful for it!

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 11:13 pm


    • knotothedrk

      10/05/2013 at 8:55 pm

      ……no, no….this person needs a bit of help…

      Explicit is a context that actually tries to be respectable in terms of trying to be a decent writer…completely and utterly depraves….now that’s what this is…this exceeds explicit…

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 9:43 pm

        You are ignoring my point. They posted this as T rated fiction when it clearly was not.

        Forcing a login for M rated material will not solve the problem, because then people will post M material as T. Forcing a login for T would then have them posting it as K+.

        I have found MA material posted as K before. This is my point.

        Your suggestion will not work unless the admins have the ability to police all content on the site. Before they can do that, they have to eliminate all content already existing that violates the Terms.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 9:57 pm

        Before they can do that, they have to eliminate all content already existing that violates the Terms.

        Which isn’t possible if you really think about it. For it to be possible it would require not only the site admins to be on top of things but for people to actually report things when they see the rules being broken. That’s the other reason why the site admins have a problem with rule breaking work. Plenty of reasons why people don’t/didn’t report.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 11:42 pm

        Actually, if he had sufficient staff to monitor his archives, then it wouldn’t be that much of a problem, because the staff themselves would find and remove the problem content. The issue there is that he simply doesn’t have the necessary personnel.

        As for users who see things and don’t report? A good many of them don’t report, leaving things like this: just sitting there, because they don’t believe the admins will do anything about it.

        We’ve both noted the futility of using the report function on site – and we’re not the only ones. Warty’s theory of the admin living in a remote area and having a broken bike chain that prevents him from accessing the internet stemmed from the fact that those reports are largely ignored – or seemingly so.

        If the admins showed a better track record of processing complaints and reports, then the likelihood of receiving reports on infringing material would increase.

        I’m fairly sure that they’re woefully understaffed, because I can’t imagine that there would be a lack of concern for material that could land one in jail for a very long time being publicly available on a site that they are responsible for maintaining. Regardless of legal jargon, Xing has a liability because he chooses to host the site.

        Now, don’t misunderstand me – I’m not saying the site should be downed or any such. While I appreciate having a place to host stories, and to read them, I would appreciate it more knowing that the site were actually monitored for infringement of this nature.

        If he had a team that was actually monitoring the new content, and other teams of staff going through the old content, it would be possible. But it would require that he increase his staff.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 12:39 am

        It would be nice if he had enough staff to monitor the site without us having to report. I don’t know though if it is possible to have that large of a staff for this site though. I’ve heard it was once possible when the site was smaller.

    • A.J. Goode

      10/06/2013 at 9:21 pm

      Ahh, that a “clean”version of the “Miley Porno” that’s been circulating for 2-3 years. Every time we think it’s gone, somebody posts it again.

      Since the links you post here in the comments seem to be getting deleted, I’d like to try one. This guy insists on posting original poem after poem in Misc. Books because he says no one goes to FictionPress.

      People like this are the problem in the miscellaneous sections. Xing, we really need you to make a statement or a move of some kind to make it clear that Fanfiction. Net is for fanfiction and FictionPress is for original work. And that “Misc. Books” does NOT mean “Misc. Junk”.

      • Spyridon

        10/07/2013 at 9:45 pm

        Is that guy really posting chapters as separate stories? Maybe Xing should delete those except for the first chapter.

      • A.J. Goode

        10/07/2013 at 9:56 pm

        @Spyridon — they aren’t chapters. They are individual free-verse poetry. Original free-verse poetry that would be quite lovely on FictionPress. NOT on Fanfiction.Net. Especially not in a caregory for fanfictions based on miscellaneous books.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/07/2013 at 11:36 pm

        A.J. – I think Spyridon’s referring to the ones with “Chapter one,” “Chapter two,” et al in the titles.

        I did send an e-mail on this one, including the non-story “Ideas” but they haven’t processed it yet.

  12. niebieskilis

    10/05/2013 at 6:45 pm

    so sex is alloved or not ?

    insted of deleting on M storys why not change category or create new one anly for logged
    how do i get to see MA storys theres no option in search
    PS fanfic is not site just fort those under 18

    • cmcwiki

      10/05/2013 at 6:53 pm

      Graphic sex isn’t allowed (I.e it takes more than 2 paragraphs to say they had sex)

      Because everyone lies about their age.

      You don’t.

      Its also not just for those over it.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 7:09 pm

        *points up* Posted before about the prior existence of the “click to say you’re 18” that they had.

        MA does not belong on this site. And given your refusal to post your age on your profile, I’m betting you’re not legal to view the material in the US (18) which means you would be putting the site in legal jeopardy by viewing it.

        FFN is hosted in the US, and if they did allow 18+ material, they would have to enforce 18+ by the US law. Meaning, even if the legal age is 16 in Poland, it’s 18 in the US. So even if in Poland it would be legal, in the US it wouldn’t.

    • Erica

      10/05/2013 at 7:55 pm

      Go to AFF or Ao3. doesn’t allow MA content. I have MA content in some of my stories and edited out specifically for this site. It’s a lot of work, but I like this site too much and have been on here for too long to really have any desire to fully move onto another archive.

      That said, on copying, I know you have all those methods, which sounds easier for copyrighted material and those specific types, but if you wanted to see if anything of yours was copied, how’d you go about it? I’ve had the misfortune of it happening to me, and the only way I found out was because I ACCIDENTALLY came across it. I wouldn’t have known otherwise. So on that, how would you find out?

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 8:03 pm

        If you “go to AFF” you had best be 18. It’s a requirement of the site.

      • yemi hikari

        10/05/2013 at 9:47 pm

        One of the ways people check to see if they’ve been plagiarized is to purposefully put a particular misspelling into their work. It needs to not be a common mistake either, like their and there. Then you can do a search for said mispelling and if it crops up in any other persons stories you can double check them against your work.

        The other way is to go and check lines by doing a search.

      • Spyridon

        10/05/2013 at 10:57 pm

        I have a question regarding the requirement of being 18 on I mean, what stops from setting up a site that would be a sister site to FFN and FPN but requires users on that site to be 18? I mean, every time I come back to AFF, I’m forced to put in a signature to legally state I’m 18. I’d be willing to do that for the 3rd, MA site if I can read some good quality MA and smutty NC-17. Of course, I would be fine having to share the more . . . . hard core kinks and themes even if I don’t agree with them just as long as there’s a filter to exclude those from searches.

        I’ve been wanting a site that runs similar to FFN that has MA and NC-17 stories on it and the closest I came to that was LJ but it required a lot of work to make sure all the chapters, posts, and such were formatted correctly to be easily accessible to my readers. The organization of AFF has left a lot to be desired considering the way it’s been set up. I just wish the sections in the various fandoms were uniform across the board.

        Yes, I know AFF is not related to FFN in anyway. That was kind of obvious due to the look of the site itself.

      • Erica

        10/05/2013 at 11:37 pm

        @Spyridon: I would love that idea, even if it’s a lot to ask from Xing and the others, because I hate, hate, hate the format for everywhere else. Ao3 is hard to navigate and AFF is as well. Livejournal is even more of a pain. is neatly and fantastically organized. It’s easy to find everything and how to download/publish stories onto the site and everything. has always been my preferred place to read and write, and I admit that while there has been the horribly written porn stuff crowding this place, there has also been more well written more mature content here than of other places, which is why MA stuff in other places is something I avoid because they usually suck, are corny, or worthless in content. A site like, but allowing MA content would also cut down on the disallowed MA content on here and at least a chunk of rulebreakers in that category might hopefully dissipate.

        Though I don’t expect it anytime soon, it might make for a good future long-term project to work on when the admins have time.

        @Yemi: Well, that’s going to be lots of work, considering I have around 76 works, with a good bunch being really long. Ah well, should check about them slowly then. Thanks for the suggestions 🙂

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 12:22 am

        What stops them?

        a.) Where would they get their funding from?
        b.) How would they monitor the other site for rule breaking content (RPF, RTB, songfic) when they’re already struggling with the two sites as it is?
        c.) It would still end up being a temptation for certain young writers. I mean, I had one kid who thought it was cool to label all of their stories as M despite being K and K+ material because they thought it was mature and when I told them, hey… this isn’t M. Most of what your writing is K and only one is a T… they threw a gasket.

        The closest site I’ve found to ffnet is Lunascence and it does allow adult material.

        @ Erica ~ Consider yourself lucky. One of my favorite writers is really close to having nine-hundred stories on the site.

    • yemi hikari

      10/05/2013 at 9:51 pm

      The site rules clearly state that MA content is not allowed. On top of this ffnet is not a site just for those over eighteen. Simple answer is to go to a site that is just for those over eighteen. That’s where MA material belongs.

      • Lillian

        10/05/2013 at 10:39 pm

        Innocent & Instinct by Vermillion Lynn. They used to have copyrighted lyrics from different musicians in their story, that was until a member of CU caught them. Though they were caught with violation material, they only removed the copyrighted lyrics and left the MA content in. I guess they believe since others have done it, they don’t have to fix it.

      • knotothedrk

        10/05/2013 at 11:07 pm

        he’s talking about making a sister site that is run my Xing for MA content…not FFn… and I for one think that would actually some a good chink of the M/MA problems… though copyrights would likely be two or three times worse at that point since Xing has a lot on his plate already…. a good idea, actually… but a lot to ask for…

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/05/2013 at 11:13 pm

        in reality there is no known way for a site provider to know if their users are 18+ or not, even if they hypothetically had some sort of a thing that required an official ID to view, it would not stop an under aged person from viewing the content if they were determined, so therefore, THE VERY BEST a site provider can do is limit the chances of it by as much as possible, but they can by no means prevent a under aged person from viewing the content, unless the sight did not exist at all, meaning that, in my view it can not be the fault of the site provider of under aged people viewing, content on the site, if they ensure as much as possible that they try to prevent it from occurring, and therefore beyond that point it the responsibility of the user to not view it if they are under age, yes I know this may sound idealistic but really in this current day and age is there any real way of stopping it from happening?.

        ok now that im done with that mini rant, time to talk of plagiarism,
        plagiarism is a deplorable, and absolutely uncreative, unoriginal, and hopelessly pathetic, the definition of plagiarism in my school is any three words taken directly from another person’s work, I believe that is a little overkill for a sight like because by its very nature often ends up using quotes, parts of conversation, and other such things, which is understandable and unavoidable in most fics, it is when an plagiarist copies with very little or no modification from another FF author or actual book, that is when you should take notice and do something about it.

        and one additional thing I would like to be able to filter stories by average chapter length, I would personally advise the following increments


        I do not believe that any other options would be necessary due to the rarity of chapters larger than 10k words

      • cmcwiki

        10/05/2013 at 11:20 pm

        I really like Titan’s chapter filter idea. it would clear out a HUGE chunk of fic’s i wouldn’t read anyway.

      • Lillian

        10/05/2013 at 11:33 pm

        That’s useless, especially seeing as you can already do that. Though it may not be via chapter, I don’t know why you’d want to search via just chapter length (that’s ridiculous), it is via how much is already written. The number rises upon how much is updated, and believe it or not.. I have seen more users writing over 10,000. And the option comes in handy when those users end up writing stories over a 100 chapters. That one I pointed out for MA violations currently has 108 chapters.

        So basically, the system would be useless since we already have it.

        I like AdultFanfiction’s applied threat when you go to the site. You must be eighteen or be arrested for fraud.. I don’t believe they are joking either. There are also the whole college ID use, and other ways to prove ones age. And if they find away around that, like say they find out their siblings password to the site, then I say it is time that people take up blocking the site material.

        It would be nice if other users didn’t encourage the rule breaking, but what can you do. People will be ignorant, stubborn, or whine about it regardless. Thankfully, there are groups working to help clean the site.

        Uh.. I don’t believe that is a good idea. Xing and the admins are stretched enough as it is with the two sites at hand. However, if I recall correctly, they made it clear that AFF existed for the MA content to go. And now we have sites such as Archive of Our Own and Wattpad (which needs some concrit groups to help keep them clean.) for them to run off to. So it would be too much of a hassle for them to create another site, for MA, just to be stretched further.

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/05/2013 at 11:46 pm

        actually its not useless, while the length filter we currently have is useful it does not allow to filter out stories that I would personally consider a waste of time (those less than 1000 words a chapter, because I can finish reading those chapters in as little as 2 minutes, its mostly because those stories that have chapters less than 3000 words a chapter rarely see completion, so its a way so sort of guarantee that you will see stories completed, not to mention its hard to have a good stories that has chapter so short, you can not get anything done in them

      • cmcwiki

        10/05/2013 at 11:58 pm

        Yeah I’d rather not waste archive space on drabblefics or other such nonsense. Personally I like it better because it shows you stories that will have gone over 100k and stories that WILL go over 100k

      • Erica

        10/05/2013 at 11:51 pm

        @Lillian: I also like AFF’s threat. They’re very strict over there and moderate very seriously. It’s been awhile, but I used to remember an electronic signature being required. I thought that was legally binding and made it a much more serious threat if someone was caught underage on the site.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/05/2013 at 11:52 pm

        Again, AFF is in no way related to or affiliated with FFN. Nor does Xing have anything at all to do with AFF.

      • Lillian

        10/05/2013 at 11:59 pm

        Then why not look for “complete” or incomplete, with the length option of your choice. You can also add whether you want to search via “update” or “published”. Really, this filter of yours is sounding more and more useless, especially when it is already simple enough to use the current length filters.

        If you want a new filter, might I suggest asking the admins for options like “hiatus”, “discontinued”, or a method of filtering summaries. And lets not forget, they are also working on a pairing system for the couple nuts on here.

        Erica: I think they did. I can’t really remember since I don’t really go there as much.

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 12:04 am

        you know its not useless because like me I am sure a lot, not all of other people would rather not waste their time on fic’s that have less than 1k words a chapter, because that is so short I would rather spend my time reading fewer long chapter than a lot of short ones

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 12:05 am

        because we aren’t looking for completed stories, we are looking for stories in progress. stories that have a good momentum going. The Chapter to word ratio simplifies having to use the filters used above just to avoid looking at the riffraff

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 12:03 am

        Sorry Rogue, I didn’t see your post until after I posted.

        Yes, I know (you’ve already told me before) that AFF is not a sister site of FFN. Erica and I were just complimenting their method of having their users prove their age, and how they are strict with their content.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 12:13 am

        the definition of plagiarism in my school is any three words taken directly from another person’s work, I believe that is a little overkill for a sight like because by its very nature often ends up using quotes, parts of conversation, and other such things, which is understandable and unavoidable in most fics

        I believe you mean three words taken directly from another person’s work that is neither credited or a common phrase. For example, “the sky is blue” is a common phrase. If you’re still in public school I’m glad they’re actually they’re teaching that at least one school. College though it’s standard.

        As for the rest of what you said about plagiarism it is actually possible to write a story without using any quotes or parts of conversations. I know because I’ve written them. There are stories out there that do end up using one or two quotes, for example one character passing on the advice they received from another character that they remember word for word. The quotes used in these fics are iconic and have a major significance though. There is a difference between using this line…

        The truth is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with caution.” ~ Albus Dumbledore

        … and this line…

        We did it, we bashed them, wee Potter’s the one,
        And Voldy’s gone moldy, so now let’s have some fun!

        ~ Peeves.

        … in your story.

        A very small use of quotes does fall under fair use, but the amount you’re allowed to use is very, very small. I don’t know the admins stance on this but if there is one to two quotes from the canon or another canon properly credited they don’t throw a gasket. Emphasis on the one or two here. Some people do report even these stories though. Quotes from songs are out of the question though.

        I like the idea for chapter sorting length. I think it should though make it so you can sort based around the thousand marks up to a thousand and it should all use the < symbol. While it is true that some writers have chapters over ten thousand words this is typically not a good thing. Most of the writers who get chapters over ten thousand are trying to pad their review count. Plus when you’re looking at chapter averages you’re wanting stories typically between two certain lengths, many under a certain count and over a thousand and two thousand being the cap.

        If there was a feature for chapters it should also use the less then equivalent. This way people aren’t tempted to pad their chapter count either just to make their story show up sooner. This way too we could have the writers with shorter stories get more attention including those who’ve written one-shots.

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 12:15 am

        Honestly, you are arguing for a useless system that you can already use on the site. If you are looking for stories in progress then simply select that option. If you want new stories with a higher chapter word than 1k then select that option in the length. It is not hard to do. Really now, people wanting to complain on a filter that is already there, and simple to use. The admins are not going to add something that is redundant.

        Also, how would you know you don’t like or like a story that is less then 1k without trying it first? I have seen plenty of 1k chapters with a good momentum going for them.

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 12:19 am

        I am not going to deni that fics with less than 1k words a chapter may get good momentum and be good stories but I simiplily like to sit and read for hours, and would like to not spend more time changing between recently updated chapter than reading

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 12:33 am

        First, work on your grammar. I had to re-read that post three times to clarify what you are saying, and really it sounds to me like you don’t want to read anything that has just been recently added at all. If that is the case, again I remind you, that the filter system is already in place for that. Simply select the length of your choice, hit the “complete” option, and then hit “apply”. You’ll get results of stories where you can sit and read for hours. (I know, I hit the highest length selection in Harry Potter and lord an behold the juicy fics for long hour reading.)

        You know what would be a great filter to add, a “rush” option. Unfortunately, we can’t tell whether a story is rushed or not unless we read it. I don’t like reading a chapter that is rushed, even if it is a 50k chapter.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 12:34 am

        @ Lillian – I think you’re missing the fact that people are referring to chapter length and not story length. Let’s say you want stories that average a thousand to five thousand words per chapter. If you select a story that has fifty thousand words you still end up with a stories that have chapters that average under a thousand or over five thousand words in length. I use a thousand to five thousand words because that is what I typically look for in a story. Over five thousand tends to push it for most writers.

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 12:38 am

        he gets it

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 12:41 am

        thank you, that’s exactly what I meant, story length is often meaning less to me and I would rather see a AVERAGE word count per chapter, and Lillian my grammar is crap because I do not want or need to spend enough time to make it nice, I try to make it as readable as possible but I never follow grammar rules, just get over it and accept it

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 12:51 am

        Yemi, I still find the filter option redundant. I don’t care for the idea of the chapter length system at all for I don’t care how long a chapter is. If a chapter is a certain length, than it is. Plus, the length of each chapter adds up to the story’s length, thus making it redundant to put in place since we can already search via length. Also, the site is built to give users the writing experience. Novels don’t care for chapter length but story length. If an author were to whine to their publishers proclaiming that they weren’t showing how long a chapter is on the book info page, than that would just be silly on the author’s part. Also, it would just clutter up the page. This would also be the result of adding this pointless feature to the site.

        GeneralTheDyingTitan: Just because you don’t care for your grammar skills doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to at least make an effort towards it. It makes it easier for readers to read, and not get stumbled over what you are trying to say.

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 12:57 am

        how would it clutter up the page? all it would say is: Avg 5k

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 12:59 am

        novels are different because they are publish only after they are completed, and henceforth chapter length make little to no different in reading experience, but in fan fiction where stories are updated one chapter at a time, it is a significant part of the reading experience and just like some people find it tedious to read the ultra long 30k word chapters that max out the max character count per single chapter, I find it tedious to read chapter that are incredibly short (I usually ignore stories with chapter word averages of less than 2k)

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 1:13 am

        cmcwiki: First, don’t call me lil. I can’t stand the nickname.. It reminds me too much of “lillykins”.

        As for how it would clutter up the website, it means having a thing telling you on each chapter how long it is. Nobody cares to know how long a chapter is, so it is basically useless to have it, and just be a big eyesore at the top of the screen. It would also be a hassle for them to fine tune the system that is already in place for counting chapters, length, and what not. So yes, it is a clutter.

        It is no different really. Once the fanfic is posted to the site it becomes published, giving the users more of the writing experience. Reviews, limits, and all. The use of a chapter length feature, as I pointed out, is redundant and nothing more than a clutter. (But really it sounds to me like you too are being a little stuck up to the small chapters.)

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 1:14 am

        No its an AVERAGE Length, not INDIVIDUAL link.

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 1:20 am

        first I am not asking for a stats like word or chapter count that is visible,
        I am asking for a filter that restricts stories viewed to a certain average word count per chapter

      • Erica

        10/06/2013 at 1:50 am

        @Rogue: As Lillian stated, we know the two sites aren’t connected, but merely noting comparisons between. I’ve known this since I found out about AFF a long time ago, so no worries. And as stated, I can’t really stand AFF’s structure compared to, so I’m pretty I wouldn’t confuse the two of being connected with the difference 🙂

        @Lillian: It has been a few years for me too, but I vaguely remember the feature. Just recently checked out the site (like a few hours ago) and read up the guidelines and stuff, and again really impressed after finding out that they really moderate and check up on the age of the user, if they see inconsistencies and ask for proof. This could have worked for too, if they really moderated, but then again AFF I think is much smaller, so who knows.

        And on the issue of chapter length -kinda torn. Personally, I don’t like really short chapters because not enough content, plot or real progression can happen (and usually doesn’t). I also write a minimum of 2k per chapter at least. And yet I also sometimes give those with short chapters a chance and tend to offer advice on improvement. I wouldn’t use this filter, but I can see how people with a certain preference would like it, but think it could also hinder writers.

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 2:06 am

        Erica: Finally, someone who sees sense. Yes, it could be a big hindrance on the writers, why those two can’t see that is beyond me. Oh well, the discussion for that is over. Back to the more important matters…

        I’m also impressed with their moderating system and think it could help FFN to with their rule breakers. If anything, the stricter method would discourage them. Plus, it could help Xing out more on catching new rule breakers and handling the back log. I don’t know, but it would hurt for them to look into it.

        As for populace, I think it is almost as popular as FFN by now. You’d think since the site has been referenced for the MA posters since the ban came, it should be by now.

        Wattpad also has a terrible site layout. All their new stories and old stories cluttered together without and define archive.. Hurgh. Let’s not forget that if you post there your story is bound to be covered by all the One Direction nonsense posted there. Plus their moderating system is a bit poor.

        As for Archive of Our Own, is slightly better than Wattpad, but their tag system, easy to get around age restrictions, and the lack of defining rules is not something I like to use.

      • Spyridon

        10/06/2013 at 4:02 am

        @Titan: You know, sometimes I do find myself calculating the average length of the chapters considering it’s fairly easy to with the number of chapters and word count being easily accessible. When it comes to preference, I do like reading stories that have about 5-10k words per chapter considering that’s between how much I used to write when I first started and how much I write now per chapter.

        Now in comparison to the current system, the one you’re proposing would certainly help in weeding out those stories that are a series of drabble fics. I automatically skip those stories that are less than 1k per chapter because I don’t like reading for a minute before having to click for the next chapter. I think AO3 would have an advantage on that considering you can click on the button to have all chapters appear on one webpage (there are problems associated with that when you get to the longer stories).

        Thinking about it mathematically, having a avg word count per chapter would equalize all stories because it would be calculating positions based on two factors instead of one which could be skewed a particular way due to final totals. I mean, if it came down to it, my preference would be to read a 100k story that’s 20 chapters long over a 100k story that’s 100 chapters long.

        But would it be something that should be implemented on FFN? I don’t know. This would be a good time to have a beta testing group to see if there ARE any advantages to having a avg word count per chapter filter over the total word count filter we currently have. As of right now, I’m thinking the benefits would be too small for the amount of work to write the coding and launch of the filter. The current filter is adequate and I can do the rough calculations myself.

  13. knotothedrk

    10/05/2013 at 11:08 pm

    Good chunk of FFN’s problems with M and Ma content… and sorry for that… was on a tablet… ><

  14. sladinforever

    10/06/2013 at 12:33 am

    I am unable to log on to the mobile and regular site (using an android galaxy s3) After I click go, I get a page that says “webpage doesn’t exist”. It has a question mark at the end of the url. Is that not supposed to be there?

  15. cmcwiki

    10/06/2013 at 1:15 am

    oops Length

    • Lillian

      10/06/2013 at 1:27 am

      Lol, your not the only one who smacks themselves for a spelling mistake. Anyway, the average length would still be a clutter . For one thing, chapter length varies upon each chapter, not all chapters will have the same length (unless it is via some ridiculous challenge or other), thus making it difficult for there to be an average chapter length. And as much as I hate repeating myself: Nobody cares to know how long a chapter is, so it is basically useless to have it, and just be a big eyesore at the top of the screen. It would also be a hassle for them to fine tune the system that is already in place for counting chapters, length, and what not. So yes, it is a clutter.

      It is no different really. Once the fanfic is posted to the site it becomes published, giving the users more of the writing experience. Reviews, limits, and all. The use of a chapter length feature, as I pointed out, is redundant and nothing more than a clutter. Whether it be individual or average.

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 1:34 am

        the reason why I said average word count per chapter is because its a pain to sort through story after story that has chapters that are shorter than a trio of ms word document pages, I know that chapter length varies but that’s why I said average the reason for this is mostly because I find the best quality of writing comes from between 3-9k words per chapter authors

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 1:39 am

        There is no valid reason why there should be a “average” chapter length feature. The only reason I see you making is because “you” prefer it. Nobody else cares about chapter length, and as I said before, it would be redundant (and a clutter) for them to add a feature that already exists and works fine for the site.

      • General TheDyingTitan

        10/06/2013 at 1:41 am

        lets leave it at this, we both have our own way of thinking let’s let Xing and crew decide what to do with it

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 1:45 am

        Hopefully they no better than to add a ridiculous feature as that.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 2:02 am

        Lillian… just because you don’t have a valid reason to use said feature doesn’t mean other people won’t. I’ll read stories regardless of chapter average despite my preference for stories that are one to five thousand words in length. There are people though who get very tired of finding stories that average under a thousand words per chapter and there are also people who are tired of finding stories with chapters over five thousand because the chapter length is easier to digest in one sitting compared to a chapter that is ten thousand words in length.

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 2:10 am

        Nor do you nor they have a valid reason to use said feature just because you are “tired” of the method. You are also forgetting to look into how this could hinder writers.

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 2:12 am

        at the risk of sounding like an unrepentant asshole

        Fuck the writers

      • Lillian

        10/06/2013 at 2:14 am

        Yes, go do that to yourself cmcwiki.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/06/2013 at 2:55 am

        Okay, average chapter length is going to change each time a chapter is uploaded.

        And you have to account for those users who ignore the guidelines and post ANs as chapters that are only 200 or so words. So, if you’ve got a story that’s six chapters of 3000 words each, and then that author’s note, you’ve dropped your average to 2600.

        You’ve also got the users who are going to put their huge petitions in their story that are over 7000 words long…. and they have a two chapter fic where the other chapter is only 1000 words.

        So the first story meets your criteria but doesn’t get hit by the filter you’re proposing, while the second story doesn’t meet your criteria and does get picked up by the filter.

        And, cmcwiki, not to offend you, but I don’t intend to take you up on the “offer,” as it were.

      • Simoneau

        10/06/2013 at 3:05 am

        @cmcwiki – in response to your suggestion re: writers, I can do no better than quote Andy Dalziel: “Thanks, I could use some. It’s been a while.”

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 3:06 am


      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 4:03 am

        @ Lillian ~ How would this feature hinder the writers?

        @ Rouge ~ It’s true that chapter averages do change as people update their stories. The biggest changes to the average for most stories chapter average occurs within the first few chapters while it typically becomes smaller as the writer adds more chapters. On top of this while the chapter average does change so does the word and chapter counts. And yeah… as with all things there are going to be ways to abuse it.

        I’ll also not that the average chapter length doesn’t need to be visible. If people really want to see it they can just do the math their own.

      • Spyridon

        10/06/2013 at 4:09 am

        @Simoneau: You got great courage to put that down. lol

        @cmcwiki: That was random.

        I would be thinking that average length would settle around a certain point the longer a story gets chapter wise. Of course, there are those authors that break TOS and have to put AN chapters which would then skew the avg.

        The I did a quick count on one of my stories and they seem to settle around 5.5k words based on quick calculations because that seemed to be her average.

        Personally, I like to get over 10k words per chapter (OCD, i don’t know) but I range from 10k-13k usually with the odd less than 10k.

        I’m just wondering for curiosity sake; do you guys like to hit a certain mark when writing and letting the muses flow around there or do you just let it completely go and screw wherever the finished chapter ends?

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 5:48 am

        Yes. I good deal of my stories average between a thousand to three thousand per chapter typically.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 5:49 am

        Let me rephrase that. My target for most chapters is a thousand words.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/06/2013 at 11:35 am

        yemi – I must not be understanding the filter request then, because as General TheDyingTitan has described it, what I understood he wanted was:

        a way to filter stories by their average chapter length

        So, if the acl is not available to view, how does that help him to determine if he wants to read the story? If he were doing the math on his own, then Lillian would have a point with the existing filters, because I can filter for everything greater than five thousand words and then do the chapter division myself. If he’s asking that there be a filter between 1000 and 5000, okay, I can see adding 3000 in there.

        But if what he’s looking for isn’t something he can view, I fail to see how it will help him.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 5:15 pm

        Said filter would be similar to how the filter for overall word length works. For example, when you search for stories that a >5k you get all works that are 5k, you don’t get only the works between 5k and 10k which is the next filter up. For chapter length the >1K would show all work that is over 1K and and < before them.

        I'm actually likely to use a <5k as chapters between 1 to 5k take less time to read then those that are 5 to 10k and if you have to take a break it is easier to remember where you are. Sometimes though it is also nice to dig into the 5k+ fics when you have time to sit down uninterrupted. Not likely to use that tag as much as the other. I also know of people whose first language isn't English or they have a learning disability. For them shorter chapters are easier to process then the longer ones.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/06/2013 at 7:28 pm

        So you’re actually wanting them to change the filters to show 1K-5K, 5K-10K, 10K-20K and so on then, not provide average chapter length as General suggested.

        Because, again, if we’re expecting him to do the math himself, just using the existing filters and doing it would suit, as Lillian attempted to point out.

        This is unclear – what you’re asking for. Either you want acl viewable so you can choose what to read, or you want them to add/recode a section of the filter.

        I understand you’re simply stating what the filters currently do. Are you asking for the ability to choose a “between” length?

        For instance:
        Filter – length
        *choose upper limit
        *choose lower limit
        *choose between limit

        And then a set of filters appears once you’ve made a choice between those three?

        Because what I understand General is asking for is:

        Filter – length:
        *choose story length
        *choose average chapter length

        And you choose between one of those. In addition, he’s wanting one added in for 3K, because he said upward of that. And what he’s proposing would have a nested filter because it would be
        length -> acl -> between -> 3K-5K

        I don’t think that’s possible with the way they’ve currently coded the filters.

        Neither are those the same thing. Additionally, if it were an option like that, then people would want it to be a viewable stat from the main listing, if only because when they’re looking at the main page, they would want to be able to glance at a page in a fandom and see if it fits into their reading requirements rather than pull out a calculator, divide 400,000 by 72 and get 5555.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 10:23 pm

        Because what I understand General is asking for is:

        Filter – length:
        *choose story length
        *choose average chapter length

        Nope… it’s more like…

        Filter 1 – total length (which is what we currently have)
        *choose upper limit
        *choose lower limit
        Filter 2 – average chapter length (would be an entirely new filter)
        *choose upper limit
        *choose lower limit

        For example, if I could select >50,000 from Filter 1 (story length) and get stories that have over 50,000 words. I then could select >5000 from Filter 2 (chapter length) and get stories that have chapters over 5000 words per chapter. Thus I would only find stories that have over 50,000 words and the chapters of said stories will all average 5000 words or more.

        Or if I could select >50,000 from Filter 1 (story length) and get stories that have over 50,000 words. I then could select or or < then 5000 words depending on which one I picked

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 10:25 pm

        P.S. Honestly don’t know whether other people would want a calculator or not. I mostly do it in my head already and if it is some major math I already pull out a calculator though.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/06/2013 at 10:42 pm

        So you’re not only wanting an additional filter, you’re wanting to hybridize it with the existing filter as well. That’s some major re-coding.

      • cathy massey

        10/06/2013 at 11:03 pm

        I’m used to reading in small fandoms where one has less luxury in qualifying a story as worth pursuing or not. I do not touch slash and try not to read anything that is not complete. Other than that, I’ll take on any length, although I ll often save the really long for when I have the time.

        How would it work, I wonder, to put two drop-downs for the chapters. On one, just the numbers and titles (if any) for chapters would appear.

        On the other, enhanced set of drop-downs, chapter number, title, date of most recent posting or revision, and length/word count would show.

        That would leave it up to the reader which version was needed at the moment, and would cause only the addition of one more button for the viewers who wanted the cleaner look and less info.

      • cathy massey

        10/06/2013 at 11:21 pm

        I was about to add, but hit the wrong button, thatI think this would work for previewing a story, not for trolling through the fic pool for a seine full of candidates.

        Let me just throw this out there – shortest chapter I can recall encountering?

        Lewis Carroll, in “Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There”. In chapter 11, he got the job done in 8 words.

      • yemi hikari

        10/07/2013 at 1:32 am

        @ Rogue ~ Yes on the additional filter, no on wanting it hybridized. I’m not even sure why you would think that it would be hybridized to be honest. While it would take time to code it wouldn’t involve any major re-coding in comparison to the other filter additions. Of course, said time at this point would be better spent on other projects.

        If you want a story that is 50,000 or more words with a chapter average that is over 5000 with character A and of the sci-fi genre you get it. If you want a story that is 20,000 or more words with a chapter average that is under 2000 with the rating of T and the crime genre then that’s what you get.

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/07/2013 at 2:52 am

        For example, if I could select >50,000 from Filter 1 (story length) and get stories that have over 50,000 words. I then could select >5000 from Filter 2 (chapter length)

        That sounds like you’re wanting both to function at the same time. Which means you want it to be a hybrid filter where it performs multiple functions. You’re wanting to use Filter 2 as a subset of Filter 1. At least, that’s how that reads. Which means that you want them to code it so that you can sort by both.

        However, if the function were to be used the way General originally described, at least, as I understood what he was trying to say, it would be Filter 2, without necessary application of Filter 1. But that’s not the way what you wrote reads.

        That’s why I said hybridized, because that’s the way that reads. You’re crossing the two filters with each other, in overlap, but that’s not what it sounded like General wanted. He may want to read a 10,000 word one shot. Using the function as you’ve proposed it would require that he choose 10,000 words as minimum on Filter 1 and 10,0000 words as minimum on Filter 2, and add in the Filter for complete (assuming that the story was recent enough to have been tagged that way because as we all know the older archive entries were not since that didn’t exist then).

        Basically, you’re using the boolean AND instead of the boolean OR, which it sounded like General was originally asking for.
        If story length > 10000 AND avg chap length > 5000 then return=true

        That’s the logic sentence I’m getting from what you’re saying. So, what you mean is you want the two filters to work in tandem (which is what made me think hybrid) but you actually want them to be separate filters.

        Following that, would it also need to be possible to have the boolean OR in the equation, such that
        If story length > 10000 OR avg chap length > 5000 then return=true?

        But then the question of null in the first filter comes in. How would that affect the results? Would it even be possible to code it such that it would compile the code and not crash?
        If story length=null AND avg chap length > 5000 then return=true

        So that if it returned a story that only has one chapter of 5000 words, it would still fit the second filter. But what I’m wondering is whether the code would be able to handle the null value in Filter 1 the way you’re proposing this.

        Sure, the filters work now without a selection there, because we’re not trying to combine that filter with a sub filter. Would it be able to function with acl being a sub filter of story length? Or would it require that Filter 1 be populated in order to use Filter 2?

      • yemi hikari

        10/07/2013 at 3:56 am

        Let’s try this again.

        Filter 1: Sort
        Filter 2: Time Range
        Filter 3: Genre
        Filter 4: Rating
        Filter 5: Language
        Filter 6: Story Length
        Filter 7: Chapter Length
        Filter 8: Status
        Filter 9: World
        Filters 10-13: Characters
        Filers ?: Pairing

        Aka the Chapter Length filter would not be a sub filter of Story Length. You would be able to use it whether or not you use the Story Length feature or not. This is true despite the fact both do use total word count to figure out both.

        And yes, if the person selects for Story Length “1000k” they will get no results. Same thing happens when you go looking for stories featuring Character A and Character B and no such stories exist for the two characters. Making it so that Character B doesn’t show up in the list when you select Character A is what would make it a hybrid system.

      • cathy massey

        10/14/2013 at 2:37 am

        I think that the chief reason I’ve been wanting for a while to see the dates for individual chapters is twofold. I’ve seen both of these examples.

        1) A work that has been dormant suddenly pops to the top of the list. I can see when it was begun. I’d like to see when it had last received some attention, prior to this.

        Or, more rarely,

        2) A story which was complete several months age suddenly pops to the front of the list.
        It now shows today’s date as ‘updated’. Why update a completed story? Did the author decide to revise a chapter, and which one? Or might a minuscule tweak have been made somewhere simply to move it back up the page where it’ll be more readily visible?

      • Vicky (@Andromakhe)

        10/19/2013 at 11:50 pm

        @Spyridon: I end a chapter wherever it stops. That is, as soon as I’ve told that chunk of story. It doesn’t matter to me if length is not uniform, because each chapter would have different needs. More dialog tends to mean more words. More exposition means shorter chapters. I’m of the firm opinion creativity should not be corralled into outputting a certain number of pages, etc.

        @Cathy: I have updated completed fics. It’s usually because I hit on ideas on how to expand it that weren’t there when I marked the fic as finished.

        If people edit legitimately, the fic should not show as updated. I’ve made several minor edits quietly, so minor that there’s no need to call attention to the fic because content isn’t really changed. So I’m thinking fics that have minor fixes were actually deleted and uploaded chapters rather than the more appropriate chapter replacement, and that’s a waste of a reader’s time unless the content has been added to or significantly changes the fic.

  16. Henrry

    10/06/2013 at 3:46 am

    I’m still not getting any alerts for the fanfics I’m following

  17. bienfait

    10/06/2013 at 6:56 am

    @Spyridon – I try to go two to three thousand words for a single chapter, but the end of each chapter is always going to come at the narrative point that feels right. If that’s at 1500 words, or at 4500, so be it.

    Generally if it’s under 1200, I will look very closely at it to make sure it’s not short weight.

    10,000 words, to my way of thinking, is not so much a single chapter as a novelette. Any single posting that’s too long for me to read properly within the available time (sometimes I only have a short time, and I don’t like to skim) and which I can’t bookmark at the point I’ve gotten to when I have to stop, is going to need a very enticing summary to get me started.

    • Vicky (@Andromakhe)

      10/20/2013 at 12:04 am

      Yep. Five thousand words or thereabouts is the most I’ll read if I see a new fic with only one chapter posted. If the fic claims to be complete but is more than that, I won’t even start because it’s too much to read in one sitting and the idea of reviewing such a long piece is daunting. If it were broken up, it would just feel more manageable and thus, approachable.

      • cmcwiki

        10/20/2013 at 12:20 am

        now thats where you and i differ. I prefer reading quality chapters from 5k to 50k and beyond in one sitting if i can. I wanna see that scroll bar shrink to a millimeter in full screen if possible.

  18. Brian Runyon

    10/06/2013 at 7:17 am

    I’ve started a pitision on the sight change dot org for fanfiction dot net to fix whatever gltch in the filter system is causing me to be unable to use it when trying to get out of it. The thing is whenever I hit the cancalApply button, all that does is close the filters without saving the filters I want to use. I’d like that problem fixed.

    • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

      10/06/2013 at 11:30 am

      Brain, have you attempted contact support with your technical issue?

      For example, you haven’t provided your OS, how you’re accessing the site, whether you’re accessing full or mobile site, your browser, version, java, version, and possibly several other things which they would need to know in order to respond to your request.

      Before you start a petition to get something fixed, it might be best if you attempted to communicate with them using the e-mail they provide for support issues and try to get help that way.

      The e-mail is on the Help page on the site. Please be sure to list all of the things they ask for, and describe in detail what you’re doing.

      Which filters are you attempting to apply? That’s important as well, because the issue may lie in code with one filter, or with a specific combination of two filters. But unless you tell them what the issues are exactly then they can’t fix it for you. So, please, e-mail them the issue.

      • cmcwiki

        10/06/2013 at 11:32 am

        because it is so obvious they know what you are talking about when you say something’s wrong *sarcasm*

  19. konarciq

    10/06/2013 at 8:04 am

    May I just suggest anything before the admins are starting any major purges here?

    I’ve just been reviewing the terms of service, and it says there:

    ” (…) you further agree that you will not submit material that is copyrighted, protected by trade secret or otherwise subject to third party proprietary rights, including privacy and publicity rights, unless you are the owner of such rights or have permission from their rightful owner and the necessary consents from any individuals whose personally identifiable information is contained in such material to post the material and to grant FanFiction.Net all of the license rights granted herein.”

    I confess I don’t understand how this works. Fanfiction is by definition infringing on copyrights, since it’s entirely based on stories written by others. If I write a story about Harry Potter for example, I can’t possibly say that I own the rights to the Harry Potter stories, can I?

    Perhaps – before starting any major purge here – it would be possible that the admins send out a general mail in which the rules are *CLEARLY* stated (in normal English) – this is allowed, this is not. (Or perhaps, in order to catch as many grey areas as possible, test the wording of that mail here in the blog first.) The situation with songfics and filks for example is highly unclear. It’s been discussed back and forth a lot here, but exactly what the admins’ stand is on the matter, is something I’m still in the dark about. The same with the borders between the different ratings.

    By giving a clear explanation of what is allowed and what isn’t, including a warning that rulebreaking fics will be removed in the near future, people who are unaware that they are doing anything wrong have a chance of fixing the problem before their stories are relentlessly taken down.

    For I believe there are quite a lot of people dabbling in the grey areas of copyright who aren’t aware that they’re doing anything wrong.

    • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

      10/06/2013 at 11:18 am

      Fair Use and transformative works do not infringe on copyrights. I suggest you review your law.

      Fair Use summarized:
      Fanfiction falls under item 2 as a derivative work. However is still cannot violate other sections of the law, such as distributing someone’s copyrighted material (e.g. the entire text of Rowling’s works) without their permission.

      I suppose, since you only quoted 6.B that you did not continue on to 6.C and 6.F

      “…You also hereby waive any moral rights you may have in your User Submissions and grant each user of the FanFiction.Net Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website. You understand and agree, however, that FanFiction.Net may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of User Submissions that have been removed or deleted.”

      “F. FanFiction.Net does not endorse any User Submission or any opinion, recommendation, or advice expressed therein, and FanFiction.Net expressly disclaims any and all liability in connection with User Submissions. FanFiction.Net does not permit copyright infringing activities and infringement of intellectual property rights on its Website, and FanFiction.Net will remove all Content and User Submissions if properly notified that such Content or User Submission infringes on another’s intellectual property rights or contravenes any applicable privacy legislation. FanFiction.Net reserves the right to remove Content and User Submissions without prior notice.”

      Please note without prior notice.

      Additionally, if you read all of section six, you will note that by posting the material, you are claiming that you have the right to do so, and in doing so sign away moral rights, allow the site to present the material without paying a royalty to do so (you don’t have master resell rights on JKR’s books just because you bought them), and allow the site to have a transferable license to “use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the FanFiction.Net Website.”

      Posting any work under copyright verbatim in its original form is not fanfiction, does not transform the work.

      There are cases available on Stanford’s site (I’m only allowed one link per post before they hide it “awaiting moderation.” But I suggest that you Google “fair use” and read the law papers made available in that search.

      Fanfiction, by its nature, does not violate copyright law, and is beneficial to the original work in many ways. Ironically enough, I had not read JKR’s books prior to reading a fanfiction based upon them. It was a well-written work, and displayed the characters with a great deal of depth, so I was intrigued. So I bought JKR’s books. In this instance, fanfiction – true fanfiction – increased her profits.

      What the RTB ‘authors’ are doing is defrauding any copyrighted author whose works they choose of their profits. They are robbing the creators of the worlds in which we play of their income.

      I welcome a purge of that material because it can get the users posting it in legal trouble, not just the site. Because if you go back to reading that TOS document, you’ll see items nine through eleven. I recommend you pay special attention to item number eleven, sub section three:

      You agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless FanFiction.Net, its parent corporation, officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any and all claims, demands, causes of action, damages, obligations, losses, liabilities, costs or debt, and expenses, (including but not limited to reasonable legal fees) arising from: (i) your use of and access to the FanFiction.Net Website; (ii) your violation of any term of these Terms of Service; (iii) your violation of any third party right, including without limitation any copyright, intellectual property, or privacy right; or (iv) any claim that one of your User Submissions caused damage to a third party. This defense and indemnification obligation will survive these Terms of Service and your use of the FanFiction.Net Website.

      In other words, if the site is sued, because you posted material that was clearly under copyright, verbatim, in its full form, without consent or thought to consequence, you, as the user will be held responsible for paying for FFN’s defense in court as well as any other costs arising from your choice to break the law. You agree to indemnify the site against that action, meaning that they will pass on any losses to you. You agree to that when you sign up for the site, when you post the material, when you violate the law. You agree to that, knowing you could be sued along with the site and have to pay not only your own legal costs, but the site’s as well.

      So, please read the document in its entirety, please read up on Fair Use, and please know your copyright law before stating that all fanfiction – a derivative and transformative work – violates copyright.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 12:28 pm

        I’ve actually met people offline who’ve gotten into the Harry Potter series because of fanfiction. Over in Japan the Manga/Anime industry is very supportive of doijinshi and only steps in if an amateur manga artist is making a huge profit and then they ask for a cut of the profits. Of course, there have only been a couple of doijinshi series that ever got that popular.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 12:29 pm

        P.S. Not advocating the sale of fanfiction mind you, just pointing out that it is considered to be very helpful for the franchize… fanworks this is.

      • konarciq

        10/06/2013 at 3:30 pm

        Good – that is somewhat helpful (although I think it could have done without the condescending tone).
        But please remember that not everybody is a wizz in the law. Besides, which law are we talking about? For example: ffnet is located in the US, but I’m presently located in Germany, where people don’t have to go by the US law. Instead, we go by the German law. And laws can be very diverse in different countries. And seeing the languages in use on ffnet, we’ve got a plethora of different national laws to deal with here.
        And secondly, the TOS are not exactly easy reading material for non-native speakers. And I doubt they are very comprehensible for your average native English 14-year-old either.

        So what I’m actually proposing is a clear list (in *normal*, every day English without all the law-speak) of what is allowed and what is not. The blog is full of discussions on these matters, so I would guess Xing and Co have a fairly good idea of where the obscurities are.

        Then send out that list in a general mail to all users with the warning that rulebreaking fics will be removed soon.

        At least that way people who aren’t aware they’re doing anything wrong (and personally, I think that group is of considerable size) have a chance to fix it. For not every rulebreaker is an evil bastard who does so on purpose…

      • konarciq

        10/06/2013 at 3:35 pm

        Checked out that link. Slightly better than TOS, but still in law-gibberish…

      • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

        10/06/2013 at 6:54 pm

        First, there was nothing consdescending. There is no “tone” – there is fact, and a request for you to be familiar with the laws you are saying that the site – by existing – violates.

        Second, the site is hosted in the US, and as I said in another post, is subject to US laws. That’s at the bottom of the same document (the Terms of Service) under item 14. Since you were saying that the site by definition violated copyright law, I came to the conclusion that you were aware that the site was bound by US law, since that is the law you would be referencing in your statement.

        Third, if you think that the forthright statements made on Cornell’s site are gibberish, then perhaps you should use a translation program to help. Again, this is not “condescension,” this is an honest suggestion.

        Fourth, many of them are well aware what they’re doing is wrong and choose to do it anyway. The site has chosen not to delete their accounts and instead to simply remove the material in question at this juncture, from what I’ve observed this last week. They are choosing to continue to violate the terms and guidelines, checking off that they’ve read them and posting author’s notes as an entire story in protest of their material being removed.

        Fifth, I do not believe the site needs to send out a general mail. Referring again to the ToS, Item 1.B:

        B. Although we may attempt to notify you when major changes are made to these Terms of Service, you should periodically review the most up-to-date version (http://www.FanFiction.Net/tos/). FanFiction.Net may, in its sole discretion, modify or revise these Terms of Service and policies at any time, and you agree to be bound by such modifications or revisions. Nothing in this Agreement shall be deemed to confer any third-party rights or benefits.

        You’re asking them to interpret a simple document from English to English. And, during that same time, we’re asking them to
        maintain the site on its new servers,
        remove copyrighted content,
        remove MA content,
        remove profane content including user names and summaries,
        remove profane images,
        re-code (again) the filters,
        add the promised hybrid filter,
        police their new content,
        and the list goes on.

        Frankly, I think rewording the ToS is going to be at the bottom of the to-do list simply because of the volume of what they are attempting to cover.

  20. The Warty Hogg

    10/06/2013 at 12:58 pm

    Transformative fan fiction as opposed to transcriptive copying has never actually been tested in court but it would probably clear. Anne Rice threatens to sue people but no one has ever actually stood up to her to test it. However, copying protected material is definitely a no-no. Whole point of copyright is controlling the rights to copying something. Doh.
    Maybe after everyone skips reading the actual guidelines and agrees without having a clue to what they just agreed to, every time someone tries to load something, a big screen comes up and says DID YOU COPY ANYTHING IN THIS STORY FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE? SONG LYRICS INCLUDED. If you did, you can’t post it.
    I still don’t understand why people can’t see that. If YOU wrote it, it’s yours. Run with it. If someone else wrote it, it isn’t yours and you can’t steal it any more than you can steal a book from a book store and get away with it.

    • konarciq

      10/06/2013 at 3:44 pm

      Yeah, if all the world were just black and white, eh? 😉 Unfortunately, I see some grey areas, too…

    • yemi hikari

      10/06/2013 at 4:51 pm

      The wording needs to be careful though. You can for example copy from Shakesphere.

      • The Warty Hogg

        10/06/2013 at 6:47 pm

        Shakespeare is not now and never has been under copyright. We are talking about primarily 20th century works. There are less grey areas than some people would like in copyright law and the only way to clarify them is in court. I would rather not go to court over fan fiction. Ask the folks at the Harry Potter Lexicon how it went for them?
        Yes, there is fair use, in reviews and the like, but blatantly posting an entire protected novel or even an entire chapter of a protected novel, no.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 10:08 pm

        I know that. The wording you used though includes works whether they are under copyright or not.

    • konarciq

      10/09/2013 at 2:10 pm

      @Rogue: Sorry, there seems to be no reply button in our discussion anymore, so I’ll put it one message down.

      First of all, you don’t seriously expect the whole world to know the intricacies of the US law, do you?

      As for fanfiction violating copyright: as far as I understand copyright (and I’m in no way an expert on the matter), using the premise and the characters of a published work for your own creations with the goal of making these creations public (I’m not talking about making money on them) is a violation of copyright. And the reason the copyright owners allow it, is that the fanfiction based on their shows/books/movies is actually positive for them from an economic point of view: generating new income from people who get to know the show through fanfiction, get interested and buy the dvd’s. Or something along those lines. Like your story about JK Rowling.

      I’m happy to hear that fanfiction does *not* violate copyright (at least not in the US, what apparently is what goes here on the site) – but for a layman like me, there are still matters left that instinctively, I’d expect to be a violation of copyright, but whether it is indeed…?

      Copying the entire text or even entire chapters of a book *of course* is not allowed. Even a 13-year-old should realize that by himself. But what about using the literal dialogue from a scene of a TV show, telling the story from another point of view? That’s using the literal text as well!

      Or filks that use small bits and pieces of the original lyrics?

      I agree with you that the admins have a lot on their plate to take care of at the moment. But I remain of the opinion that if they’re going to remove all rulebreaking stories, it would be a reasonable request if they can clarify beforehand exactly what is and what isn’t allowed. And then in a language comprehensible even for non-natives and non-lawyers.

      And whether that’s done in a general email, or here in the blog linked from the TOS as Psychy Major suggested – that doesn’t make any difference for me. 🙂

  21. Quincy

    10/06/2013 at 1:11 pm

    I think we should all agree that everyone has their preference. Any chapter below 1000 words or above 15,000 words can either be annoying or not filling. Its a matter of taste, time, and overall enjoyment.

  22. tiquatue

    10/06/2013 at 1:29 pm

    Re: the chapter average word count. I guess no one here ever reads (or writes) drabbles. I do, on occasion. (I also have an 80 chapter fanfic that has a 358K word count.) Drabbles are not easy and good ones can limn out a scene quickly.

    • cathy massey

      10/06/2013 at 4:20 pm

      I’ve read many a good drabble. A well-crafted one, where a person has plainly spent a while selecting and fitting together just the right words, will win my respect and enjoyment.

      A drabble has a certain structure and length limitation. And yes, I understand that sometimes this site will assign a different number, no matter how perfectly you’ve hit the mark on your own count, and I’m perfectly willing to cut some slack for that.

      What tweaks my exasperation, however, is the people who churn out one 275 – 650 word ramble after another and label them all ‘drabbles’.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 4:28 pm

        What tweaks my exasperation, however, is the people who churn out one 275 – 650 word ramble after another and label them all ‘drabbles’.

        You’re not the only one who dislike this. I’ve come across one that was over a thousand words. When I see these I always leave a review saying… “yeah, the story was nice but this isn’t a drabble”.

        I have come across one person who went about drabbles a different way. The first drabble was a hundred words, the second two hundred and they increased every chapter and thus having a thousand word drabble wouldn’t be out of the question.

      • tiquatue

        10/06/2013 at 4:50 pm

        @cathy: I agree. A drabble = 100 words. They aren’t easy to write, that’s for sure!

        @yemi: I’ve heard of people calling 200 words a double drabble, 300 words a triple drabble, etc. The key is to write concisely within the limitations of the word count. Even 1000 words can be difficult for some writers to meet and not exceed.

      • yemi hikari

        10/06/2013 at 5:02 pm

        The other thing I’ve heard people refer them to is a 200 word drabble. Some people write 119 word drabbles or 99 word drabbles. Drabble by itself specifically means 100 words.

  23. cherri

    10/06/2013 at 2:55 pm

    i sometimes get not found on this server errors

    • Rogue Mudblood (@RogueMudblood)

      10/06/2013 at 7:00 pm

      sherri – they need more detail to address a support issue.

      Are you accessing the mobile or full version of the site?
      What equipment (PC, mobile, Mac) are you using to access?
      What browser are you using?
      What is its version?
      Is your Java up to date?

      You will also want to check your internet connection to verify no issues there.

      Finally, what stories are you trying to access? Are you accessing material that violates copyright? (read the book stories) Because they’ve been removing it.

  24. Shelli

    10/07/2013 at 9:58 pm

    Bibliophilic – Interested in beta reading for authors, mostly novels, biography, romance and action/adventure.
    Any help on how I might go about this is much appreciated.
    Stay at home mom, 30 years.

  25. PsychyMajor

    10/07/2013 at 11:36 pm

    In regards to the update/reword the rules, I think instead of that, they should, as a blog, go through each rule and give an exact explanation of what it means, what it entails, and what it doesn’t. This way, it keeps the rules the way they are, while providing an official interpretation of the rules. They can even link the blog in the rules just in case. That’s just my thought.

    • yemi hikari

      10/08/2013 at 2:31 am

      It would be nice actually.

    • konarciq

      10/09/2013 at 1:43 pm

      Same idea, simpler execution 🙂 Thanks!

  26. Kaylen

    10/08/2013 at 12:35 am

    Why has there been a nocopy script added?

    Understandable when used to prevent the copy/pasting of stories – but by preventing highlighting all together?

    I highlight words I don’t know, and it brings up a dictionary meaning. I highlight a name, phrase, title, words or something so I can google search them.

    Why add the nocopy script to prevent this, thus hampering my ability to fully be able to understand what I am reading?

    A bit silly, if you ask me.

    • cmcwiki

      10/08/2013 at 12:49 am

      like you said, its to prevent plagiarism. which really doesn’t work since the select all function is still active. Seeing this flaw, i can agree, xing, y u do this? I’m still able to copy everything by right clicking and hitting select all and then copy, or control a+ control c. need to fix this dude… eventually, after we get our reports taken care of.

      • yemi hikari

        10/08/2013 at 1:29 am

        Even if select all was disabled you could still copy and paste a story as there is a method to get around nocopy.

    • yemi hikari

      10/08/2013 at 1:15 am

      I know a few people brought up the fact they wanted nocopy added to the site but every time its been brought it up I’ve said I didn’t want the feature to be implemented. I know the reason people wanted nocopy is because they feel it will prevent plagiarism because people can no longer copy and paste stuff.

      Not only does it not prevent plagiarism one of the sites I frequent that used to do nocopy stopped using it. First, there are ways around nocopy if someone wants to copy and paste. Second, nocopy does not stop people from transcribing another persons work. The RTB are proof of this. All it does is punish the people who don’t break the rules in the first place.

      I personally use the copy paste feature so I can copy lines for quotes. A few times I’ve had to copy paste and entire story so I could break it up into actual paragraphs to critique the work. Other times I copy the story into a word document so I can make notes the story has so many problems and I want to give the writer a fair review.

  27. seila

    10/08/2013 at 3:00 am

    Augh, nocopy is a terrible thing. This makes pointing out specific lines in reviews extremely unwieldly. And for reading purposes I copy full chapters and reformat them for printing in a word program. There are many, many benign reasons to want to copy bits and pieces on a writing site, and while there are work arounds, it won’t stop a determined plagiarist, and in the mean time, it’s inconveniencing all the honest folk too.

    Please reconsider this change?

    • Simoneau

      10/08/2013 at 4:04 am

      Not quite sure what the problem is for everyone else, but I’m still able to copy and paste with no problems.

      Used it just now while reporting rule breaking fictions – you have to include quotes to support your report, and I just copied and pasted as normal. It worked fine.

      To test it, I also copied and pasted both an entire chapter and an extract from a chapter into a word doc. Again, it worked fine.

      I did this within the last five minutes.

      What exactly is supposed to be the problem?

      • Lillian

        10/08/2013 at 1:43 pm

        It may just be a glitch on the internet. I know mine ends up closing a page here, normally just in PMs and the report box, but when I do reviews it will sometimes do it to. I just chalk it up to IE10 not liking the site. As for copying and pasting, mine works fine (other then when my mouse wants to be a pain in the butt.).

  28. juan sobalvarro (@juanjoseso)

    10/18/2013 at 9:01 pm

    I’m glad their’s web sites that allowed anything above M unlike this preschool crap that fan fiction is

  29. linzi

    10/29/2013 at 6:32 pm

    i was wondering if you can help me i have not recieved any emails from since the beginning of september i have emails support but they have not got back to me i have done all that is asked such as adding in my address but they do not come through


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